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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2014 11:11:19 GMT -6
I don't own any ribbons and the R84 looks like a hot mic.
Who's got/had/used one? How versatile are they? What sources work or don't work? Ideally, I'm looking for a bit of a jack of all trades ribbon flavor. Horns, vocals, guitars, room, etc. Thoughts?
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Post by delcampo on Dec 28, 2014 11:23:08 GMT -6
I would say ime, guitar cab, horns -yes. Vocals, room …in some cases but mostly ensuing top eq needed.
No disrespect to the R84 that has a richness to it but I'd be sure to consider Samar AL39 as a highly appreciable ribbon in the R84's price range. Much more full range (particularly the top) w/o sounding anything but well balanced. Certainly more of a jack of all trades ribbon in the 1k ballpark. I have not heard however the brand new offerings from Samar that are even a few hundred less than the AL39. I'd expect excellence from Mark & Carl though given the Samar rep. fwiw.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 28, 2014 11:28:34 GMT -6
I've got an R-84. It's dark like most ribbons and well suited for anything jangly or harsh. Use a high impedance pre or a cloud lifter with it and it becomes a different animal. Great on vocals and acoustics. Its just an all around great mic. A pair is wonderful on overheads.
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Post by RicFoxx on Dec 28, 2014 12:16:29 GMT -6
I have one and love it...Guitar cabs, drum overhead, vocals, acoustics, etc...
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Post by keymod on Dec 28, 2014 12:52:48 GMT -6
I have the R88 that gave me good results as a room mic in a back of a church setting during a choir concert. I've had it for several years but that was the only time I used it. I wish I had more opportunity to try it elsewhere.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 28, 2014 13:26:04 GMT -6
If I keep my amp, I think I'll buy a R92. It's brighter than the R84, but still not as bright as the N line.
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Post by svart on Dec 28, 2014 13:31:24 GMT -6
Not to derail the thread, but I auditioned one and it wasn't a whole lot different than the chinese mics I had IMHO. Very dark, not very sensitive (sources have to be LOUD).
I auditioned the R121 and kept it instead.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 28, 2014 15:01:20 GMT -6
JMO, but you guys are seriously remiss if you don't try the VL37 samar $750, the AEA is at least $1k! The VL37 is the equivalent to the MF65 (- fancy body) mic that won the $60,000 shootout on recordinghacks that included every ribbon mic under the sun including the AEA R84. I have some samar modded mics that are beyond great.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2014 15:03:05 GMT -6
JMO, but you guys are seriously remiss if you don't try the VL37 samar $750, the AEA is at least $1k! The VL37 is the equivalent to the MF65 (- fancy body) mic that won the $60,000 shootout on recordinghacks that included every ribbon mic under the sun including the AEA R84. I have some samar modded mics that are beyond great. View AttachmentThe AEA is about $700 used. The Samar can't be had used. I prefer to have others eat the depreciation.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 28, 2014 15:13:55 GMT -6
JMO, but you guys are seriously remiss if you don't try the VL37 samar $750, the AEA is at least $1k! The VL37 is the equivalent to the MF65 (- fancy body) mic that won the $60,000 shootout on recordinghacks that included every ribbon mic under the sun including the AEA R84. I have some samar modded mics that are beyond great. The AEA is about $700 used. The Samar can't be had used. I prefer to have others eat the depreciation. over $50? a used ribbon is a gamble, a new samar is a keeper and i'd bet the farm it smokes the AEA R84? just saying..
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2014 15:24:36 GMT -6
The AEA is about $700 used. The Samar can't be had used. I prefer to have others eat the depreciation. over $50? a used ribbon is a gamble, a new samar is a keeper and i'd bet the farm it smokes the AEA R84? just saying.. Not over $50. If/when I sell the Samar, I'll probably be losing another $200. It's petty rate for me to buy something that I can't get my money back with. It's just the nature of the game for me.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2014 16:50:03 GMT -6
Also, to be clear, I'm not saying anything negative about the Samar or saying the the AEA is better or anything of that nature.
I'm just concerned about a new model to market potentially not holding resale value. As you guys have probably noticed at this point, I'm buying and selling all the time. That's my way of demoing different gear on my terms and in my environment. If the ribbon doesn't work for me or if I need some cash, I don't like getting stuck taking a loss.
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Post by RicFoxx on Dec 28, 2014 17:41:27 GMT -6
Im sure the Samar's are great but I like exactly the way the AEA sounds. If I want more highs I eq it in and it takes EQ better than any mic I have. I have mics that do a flat frequency response type thing.
...give me a sm7, AEA R84, KM84 and my MK47 and I'm sonically covered!
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 29, 2014 10:29:05 GMT -6
Given that I used figure eight about ten times in my life, a bi-directional, low output mic with severe high frequency losses wouldn't be a mic at the front of my mic cab. Some might consider it 'broken' next to other stuff.
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Post by svart on Dec 29, 2014 10:42:46 GMT -6
That's pretty much why I chose the R121.. Higher output that others, more top end, but still retains the smooth ribbon qualities..
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Post by aremos on Dec 29, 2014 10:43:40 GMT -6
Given that I used figure eight about ten times in my life, a bi-directional, low output mic with severe high frequency losses wouldn't be a mic at the front of my mic cab. Some might consider it 'broken' next to other stuff. Jim, Are you referring (generally) to ribbons? Has anyone A/B'd the AEA84 & the Samar (37,39,65)?
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Post by drbill on Dec 29, 2014 10:59:32 GMT -6
Given that I used figure eight about ten times in my life, a bi-directional, low output mic with severe high frequency losses wouldn't be a mic at the front of my mic cab. Some might consider it 'broken' next to other stuff. That makes perfect sense coming from you Jim - and seems right in line with your philosophy on audio. But I have to say that I love and use ribbons. :-) A lot. I like the 84 over the 92. I like the 121 as well. 4038's are bitchin' & creamy. I REALLY love the Joly long ribbons (desert island specials). I LOVE RCA's (44/77) for big band stuff - but not much else. I'm sure I'd probably like the samar. They all are their own flavors. Personally, when I reach for a ribbon, I expect smooth and dark. Most deliver that. IMO - saying a samar is better than a AEA is like saying a U47 is better than a C12. You NEED both flavors if you want a complete mic locker. Does anyone espouse to only having one LDC or only one pair of SDC's? Ribbons are my #1 choice for anything wind blown - especially on the brass end of the scale with tpts being the extreme. They can make wanky guitars mando or ukes sound amazing. They are def at the top of my list along with a U47 for front of kit drum rooms. Not to mention they are great at smoothing out a nasty amp sound. I recorded a well noted smooth jazz trumpeter, and he'd been in studio's all his life, looking for the "prefect" mic for him. All the top end vintage neumann's and AKG's, and was still looking. I put up a Joly modded 205 (long ribbon - not short) and that was it. He wasn't leaving without the mic. I had to get another.... heh heh If I was still rocking tape, I probably wouldn't use them as much, but in this dig era, they are a Godsend.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 29, 2014 11:32:02 GMT -6
different horses for different courses, saying it's better than an aea 84 is not the best idea(i know i said it), but i had some nicely modded apex 205's in my drawer that didn't get used much, ever since mark (samar) did his thing, i can't wait to pull them out, they are remarkable imo. As soon as JK's 47 is running, i'll sample some stuff with those mics as well, all the butter of a ribbon with extreme high end extension considering they're ribbons.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 11:56:07 GMT -6
You having a bad day, Jim?
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Post by drbill on Dec 29, 2014 12:24:24 GMT -6
different horses for different courses, saying it's better than an aea 84 is not the best idea(i know i said it), but i had some nicely modded apex 205's in my drawer that didn't get used much, ever since mark (samar) did his thing, i can't wait to pull them out, they are remarkable imo. As soon as JK's 47 is running, i'll sample some stuff with those mics as well, all the butter of a ribbon with extreme high end extension considering they're ribbons. Indeed. Sometimes personally modded stuff - as good as it is - doesn't stand up to how good they can be in the hands of somebody who does it all day long for a living - like samar or Joly.
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 30, 2014 10:27:47 GMT -6
Given that I used figure eight about ten times in my life, a bi-directional, low output mic with severe high frequency losses wouldn't be a mic at the front of my mic cab. Some might consider it 'broken' next to other stuff. That makes perfect sense coming from you Jim - and seems right in line with your philosophy on audio. I am sorta consistant, even if some think I'm consistantly wrong. I very rarely have a need/desire for a bi-directional mic pickup pattern, whether it's a capacitor mike or ribbon. Rear lobe pickup is a problem for most of my sources. The other main problem is a -180 degree out of phase rear lobe, that creates more problems for me if the mic is used for chores like dual tom pickup or two singers facing each other. Even room tones recorded out of phase can cause problems mixed with other tracks in the same room. Orchestral patterns are the only benefit of using that for me, you can do M/S and other stuff that way. I'm a believer in very high quality capacitor mics for brass as well. I realize I may be in the minority on that subject, but I've used capacitor mics on brass and big bands since 1972. Also having played in a couple, I know what a trumpet sounds like. They bite sometimes. The RCA 77's I had access too in the 1980's were probably not in the best condition, but using analog tape negated the need for them to smooth out digital tracks, something they are probably good at if there is any digititus to the production or software. There are also some successful 'smooth jazz' horn players that also use capacitor mics exclusively. Eugene Grove, aka Huge Groove uses a modified AKG 414 B-ULS. Trumpet/flugelhorn player Rick Braun also uses the same mic on his horns as well. If one uses a very high quality preamp along with excellent conversion, horns sound very smooth and natural. Where they fall apart is with digital editors, any digititus and they sound like a kazoo.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2014 10:51:58 GMT -6
There haven't been many instances in modern music where I would choose a ribbon over a condenser for most sources...electric guitar might be one of them though.
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Post by Ward on Dec 30, 2014 17:27:13 GMT -6
A Royer 121 is a very natural sounding microphone and is ideally suited to guitar cabinet and even snare drum, if you have enough space to get one of the null points pointed at the hats.
I have an original RCA44 from 1942 that was restored by Wes Dooley. It's gorgeous but dark. Ideal on dobro, front of kit in a very bright setting but it is definitely dark, like the R84. You shouldn't buy any typical sounding ribbon unless you have a chance to spend some time with it and truly understand what it sounds like....and how you would use it.
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Post by category5 on Dec 30, 2014 20:27:22 GMT -6
Everyone's addicted to HF these days. Once you get to know the R84 you can appreciate it for the gem it is. If you want bright don't be afraid to high pass or pull a little low mid out. The R84 has a very smooth and pleasnat upper range that seems impossible to make harsh. It's the truckload of bottom that keeps it from being the first thing you notice. As Herbie stated the mic likes a high impedance input, and if you have mostly vintage pres you can add a cloudlifter or similar active device to properly load the mic.
No, it's not a condenser and that is precisely why it's such a great tool. It's a miracle for steel pan BTW, and instrument that's damn difficult to record without it being harsh.
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Post by kidvybes on Dec 30, 2014 22:43:24 GMT -6
Indeed. Sometimes personally modded stuff - as good as it is - doesn't stand up to how good they can be in the hands of somebody who does it all day long for a living - like samar or Joly. ...I'm sure that evaluation truly makes Mark "Marik" Fouxman's day (spoken in my most sarcastic tone)... ...any of those who have never used one of Mark's ribbon creations first-hand is more than likely underestimating their quality, versatility and performance, even in the company of restored RCAs, AEA, Coles, Royer, Cloud or any other of the current crop of "boutique" ribbon-mics for that matter...where others emulate older-designs, Mark truly innovates...his integrated short-path ribbon-motor, his original acoustic-plates, his unique acoustic grill mesh, his own toroidal transformers, all designed and most produced in-house...even the specific ribbon-crimping techniques he employs, the man's a genius... recordinghacks.com/2012/04/12/samar-audio-mf65-review/
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