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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 12, 2015 12:46:33 GMT -6
You can personally squabble via PM...back on topic.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Feb 12, 2015 15:39:13 GMT -6
Fir me, the R84 is like the tool in the toolbox that gets used only for certain purposes. Not my go-to for vocals, but there are a few voices with a harsh brightness on which it has saved the day. Good for bass cab or mono drum room.
It doesn't sound like my 44bx.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 12, 2015 21:31:42 GMT -6
I call it the "ear-wallet syndrome". I know it has an actual technical term but I can't remember it. It happens with audiophiles all the time. They spend stupid amounts of money on things and they "hear" the performance increase of a product that has no tangible and/or measurable difference to something else. You're certainly free to believe in whatever preconceptions you like, but I guarantee you that the audiophile power cords, power outlet, and power conditioner running my computer had a whole lot to do with me being able to identify your converter the other day, while I was listening over my 3" computer speakers. Should we give you a trophy?
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t3
Junior Member
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class travelling set.
Posts: 54
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Post by t3 on Feb 13, 2015 14:02:43 GMT -6
You're certainly free to believe in whatever preconceptions you like, but I guarantee you that the audiophile power cords, power outlet, and power conditioner running my computer had a whole lot to do with me being able to identify your converter the other day, while I was listening over my 3" computer speakers. Should we give you a trophy? Absolutely not, but one would reasonably think that people on a pro audio forum would be interested in the equipment that was used to allow someone to pull that off.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2015 14:14:10 GMT -6
"Pull that off?" We're not indexing the human genome here...Anyway, great job.
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t3
Junior Member
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class travelling set.
Posts: 54
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Post by t3 on Feb 13, 2015 14:25:26 GMT -6
"Pull that off?" We're not indexing the human genome here...Anyway, great job. Yeah, you're right, it's only music.
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Post by svart on Feb 13, 2015 15:08:08 GMT -6
Should we give you a trophy? Absolutely not, but one would reasonably think that people on a pro audio forum would be interested in the equipment that was used to allow someone to pull that off. I would think small speakers would actually help since they tend to focus the mids and upper frequencies a little better. That's why speakers like Avantones and Auratones work so well despite being almost nothing but mid frequency generators. Besides, as an engineer that designs for the CATV industry, one of my duties is transmission line design, which necessitates knowing pretty much everything about cables and cable design. So while I'm not saying that there isn't a difference between cable materials and designs, I am saying that it's grossly overstated for marketing purposes usually. Anyway, we covered a lot of this discussion in a thread a while ago, although I don't remember what the name of it was though.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Feb 13, 2015 17:56:16 GMT -6
OK When the Audiophile world talks Outlets the first words are " hospital grade" now besides being in one and spending a lot of time in Hospitals, I know a bit about hospitals and the world of Bioelectronics , a bunch of the big Medical equipment manufacturers were clients, my Uncle was the first Bio electronics Engineer and the Top Award The Jim Kipp Award was names for him. This is a long way of saying the only difference between the outlets hear and the ones at home are these are designed to be 100% spark less and it is almost impossible to connect the +or - before ground, Now if that improves sonics. Oh I knew witch was the RGO at first blind listen just by the virtue of our friends, design goals and on pretty good legal drugs!
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 14, 2015 1:38:20 GMT -6
I would venture that if someone had extensive experience with a Burl, and an apollo, they could have probably picked out the Svartacus by process of elimination? But if they never owned a burl and apollo, a correct "pick" could only be achieved by guessing on hearsay of reputation, or by sheer luck? I picked the burl correctly because i read it had a lot of bottom end and a smooth top. I also read that the apollo had a lot of bottom end, so by virtue of that info, i picked the apollo for the Svartacus... wrong. So i guess my guessing wasn't as informed/lucky as someone elses.. who of all the guessers, "pulled it off"... and guessed correctly? So unless an outlet and cord improves one's ability to guess? i don't see them or the quality of someones gear having any logical relevance to "pulling it off". The only logical response that anyone could have to this is "i owned both the burl and apollo", otherwise the only conceiveable way to guess correctly is based off of hearsay, or luck plain and simple
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dax80
New Member
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Post by dax80 on Jun 28, 2016 11:24:57 GMT -6
which pair of microphones do you recommend to buy between AEA N8 and Samar Samar VL37 (or VL37A) that can be versatile for the recordings of instruments like vocals, guitars, drums, ethnic instruments, foley, etc...?
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 28, 2016 11:49:30 GMT -6
which pair of microphones do you recommend to buy between AEA N8 and Samar Samar VL37 (or VL37A) that can be versatile for the recordings of instruments like vocals, guitars, drums, ethnic instruments, foley, etc...? I sold my R84 and kept my VL37. I found the Samar more flexible. It's not as dark as the R84 and doesn't have that bloated bottom of the R84 when close mic'ing. The R84 is awesome, and I would've kept both if I could, but I had to choose and the Samar won for me.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 28, 2016 12:32:01 GMT -6
Just realized you were referencing the N8, not the R84. Never used the N8. Hope my comment was still somewhat helpful.
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dax80
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dax80 on Jun 28, 2016 13:45:25 GMT -6
Thanks indiehouse for the reply, I had discarded the R84 because I seem dark and you've confirmed. Unfortunately there are not many audio examples for the Samar VL37... From what I heard the AEA N8 seems to have a proximity effect at the bottom...the Samar VL37 is more balanced?
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Post by rowmat on Jun 28, 2016 14:40:38 GMT -6
The R84 is one of our 'go to' mics and is not particularly dark unless it is feeding long cable runs and insufficient micpre input impedance.
I shortened the fixed cable on our R84 to 18" and use it with a Cloudlifter directly mounted on the mic boom arm.
Although we have an AEA RPQ preamp which is considered 'THE' ribbon preamp I have had great success using the R84 with the Cloudlifter into a Seventh Circle Audio J99 (John Hardy Twin Servo style) preamp.
This arrangement requires very little high EQ boost to make the R84 shine.
If you think the R84 is too dark then you're doing it wrong!
We're about to buy a second one!
PS: Don't have much fondness for the N22's however. I find them anaemic.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 28, 2016 14:55:45 GMT -6
which pair of microphones do you recommend to buy between AEA N8 and Samar Samar VL37 (or VL37A) that can be versatile for the recordings of instruments like vocals, guitars, drums, ethnic instruments, foley, etc...? I sold my R84 and kept my VL37. I found the Samar more flexible. It's not as dark as the R84 and doesn't have that bloated bottom of the R84 when close mic'ing. The R84 is awesome, and I would've kept both if I could, but I had to choose and the Samar won for me. I think you nailed it but you have to look at time frame and design goals when you compare these mics. When Wes designed the R84 the only other ribbons on the market where the Coles and Beyers the goal was an old school ribbon sound! Samara and Others are out to create a modern ribbon! While they are both ribbons they have 2 differ goals . It's like Comparing a Ferrari to a Morgan.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 28, 2016 15:01:54 GMT -6
I sold my R84 and kept my VL37. I found the Samar more flexible. It's not as dark as the R84 and doesn't have that bloated bottom of the R84 when close mic'ing. The R84 is awesome, and I would've kept both if I could, but I had to choose and the Samar won for me. I think you nailed it but you have to look at time frame and design goals when you compare these mics. When Wes designed the R84 the only other ribbons on the market where the Coles and Beyers the goal was an old school ribbon sound! Samara and Others are out to create a modern ribbon! While they are both ribbons they have 2 differ goals . It's like Comparing a Ferrari to a Morgan. For sure. To be clear, I didn't think one was better than the other. I just liked the Samar on more sources than I did the AEA. Subjective, of course.
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dax80
New Member
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Post by dax80 on Jun 28, 2016 15:58:11 GMT -6
Thank you all for the replies! It's true, the sound is not only given by the microphone but also the sum of the rest that makes the difference. What I'm looking for is versatility, because they will be my main microphones for recording various instruments. Unfortunately I have no way to test them personally and I fear of making the wrong choice... From what I understood the Samar and the AEA are great products, and I want to find a pair of microphones that are balanced and not too vintage and muddy or cold and harsh as many LDC or SDC...
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Post by EmRR on Jun 28, 2016 16:33:00 GMT -6
I can't speak to the AEA (probably said some variation of this before), the Samar can be used for virtually anything. I never have to add treble, nor does it sound thin. Clients usually pick it over anything else I put up for comparison, on most sources.
The practical difference I can mention is one of expediency; Samar is a small shop with high demand, and you'll probably wait a long while after ordering to get anything. AEA likely has something that can ship today. Ask that question of either if it's important. I think the Samar is worth waiting for, but that may not fit your needs.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2016 16:54:11 GMT -6
Totally agree. The Samar is awesome. I've used the 84 a bit and it's a really good mic...I could see using both it on a number of things, but find they're limited. The VL37 honestly reminded me of the MKU47 I had. I've owned the N22 and found it a bit mid forward. I hear the N8 is better. Mark from Samar posts here - maybe he could give a comparison. I'd recommend it highly.
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dax80
New Member
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Post by dax80 on Jun 29, 2016 5:35:23 GMT -6
Thanks for the info, it seems that the Samar VL37 is really appreciated. I agree that from what I've heard, The AEA N22 is a bit mid forward and unbalanced, so I was considering the N8. It would be interesting to have a sound comparison because the VL37 Samar does not have many audio examples like the N8... If anyone had any audio track would be great, because I have to make the purchase in these days
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Post by stratboy on Jun 29, 2016 13:40:04 GMT -6
I have had an R-84 for several years now, and used it on electric gtrs, acoustic gtrs, vox and percussion. I have been very happy with the results. It is dark, yes, but that works for bright sources. It takes EQ well. It does have a big proximity effect, so it works best at least a couple of feet off the source. I have paired it with my TAB V78 and Vintech x73i preamps and it works great. However, I recently purchased a Cathedral Pipes Durham (cloud lifter equivalent) and the difference is startling. It becomes even more 'present'. Nice! So, impedence matching makes a huge difference with this mic.
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Post by stratboy on Jun 29, 2016 15:53:17 GMT -6
Btw, the cathedral pipes Durham is a steal if you are in the market for a.cloudlifter. I'm gonna try it on my sm7 next.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 29, 2016 15:55:26 GMT -6
I have had an R-84 for several years now, and used it on electric gtrs, acoustic gtrs, vox and percussion. I have been very happy with the results. It is dark, yes, but that works for bright sources. It takes EQ well. It does have a big proximity effect, so it works best at least a couple of feet off the source. I have paired it with my TAB V78 and Vintech x73i preamps and it works great. However, I recently purchased a Cathedral Pipes Durham (cloud lifter equivalent) and the difference is startling. It becomes even more 'present'. Nice! So, impedence matching makes a huge difference with this mic. Not only impedance but the addition 15-20db of gain provided by Cloudlifters or similar devices allows almost any micpre to be used with the R84 without noise or impedance issues. When I see people have gotten rid of their R84's because that felt they were too dark I shake my head. 😕
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2016 10:28:07 GMT -6
The r84 sounded fantastic with the AEA pre and some top added with the eq. Lots of different ways to skin the cat.
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dax80
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dax80 on Jun 30, 2016 10:51:36 GMT -6
ok, then use a cloudfilter or the cathedral pipes Durham is a good thing with ribbon microphones. I read that the Samar VL37A is active, so it's a better choice than the Samar VL37? I must shortly decide what to buy these days... AEA N8 or VL37 or VL37A....for the moment it seems there is more appreciation for Samar
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