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Post by Ward on Dec 30, 2014 23:39:55 GMT -6
Thanks for the link kidvybes those Samars are wonderful on drum overs and piano.
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Post by Randge on Dec 31, 2014 0:03:34 GMT -6
I have over 20 ribbons here and what is amazing is doing an all ribbon session. I tend to use mic pres that aren't tubed and go for the rest of the chain being pretty squeaky clean if I do that. Proper high pass filtering, a lot higher than one might think, can make ribbons sound like you are in the room with the instruments. I think people get scared when they see themselves high-passing considerably higher than they do with their condensers and dynamics,and abandon them before really seeing how great they can be. Impedance again plays a huge roll in my vintage stuff. I have full on 1930's-40's RCA signal chains to go with my RCA and Altec ribbons of that era. Matching up that era gear just kills me every time I do it. There is little to do after high passing properly and gentle high end shelving if you desire that. I am pretty lucky, as I have some pretty adventurous clients that like to get in the time machine and go back to the 50's and 60's sometimes. I will use Monty Good as a "good" example of one. He asked that we make his record with an early 60's sound and feel. Not having a tape machine till now, I had to really rely on my vintage gear to get us there. The band was a blast to record and are all huge fans of that era of music, so it was such an easy couple of days to track, with everyone live on the floor, no click track. Our click was none other then Willie Cantu, Buck Owens' drummer for many many years. If anyone is interested, here is Monte's Reverb Nation page that has a few of the songs that we recorded and mixed. Mastering was done by Randy Leroy at Airshow Mastering in Takoma Park, Md. Forgive the mp-3 degradation that about kills me to hear. www.reverbnation.com/montegoodandthehonkytonkheroesbandR
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Post by RicFoxx on Dec 31, 2014 8:16:28 GMT -6
I have over 20 ribbons here and what is amazing is doing an all ribbon session. I tend to use mic pres that aren't tubed and go for the rest of the chain being pretty squeaky clean if I do that. Proper high pass filtering, a lot higher than one might think, can make ribbons sound like you are in the room with the instruments. I think people get scared when they see themselves high-passing considerably higher than they do with their condensers and dynamics,and abandon them before really seeing how great they can be. Impedance again plays a huge roll in my vintage stuff. I have full on 1930's-40's RCA signal chains to go with my RCA and Altec ribbons of that era. Matching up that era gear just kills me every time I do it. There is little to do after high passing properly and gentle high end shelving if you desire that. I am pretty lucky, as I have some pretty adventurous clients that like to get in the time machine and go back to the 50's and 60's sometimes. I will use Monty Good as a "good" example of one. He asked that we make his record with an early 60's sound and feel. Not having a tape machine till now, I had to really rely on my vintage gear to get us there. The band was a blast to record and are all huge fans of that era of music, so it was such an easy couple of days to track, with everyone live on the floor, no click track. Our click was none other then Willie Cantu, Buck Owens' drummer for many many years. If anyone is interested, here is Monte's Reverb Nation page that has a few of the songs that we recorded and mixed. Mastering was done by Randy Leroy at Airshow Mastering in Takoma Park, Md. Forgive the mp-3 degradation that about kills me to hear. www.reverbnation.com/montegoodandthehonkytonkheroesbandR Sounds great!
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Post by svart on Dec 31, 2014 9:40:48 GMT -6
different horses for different courses, saying it's better than an aea 84 is not the best idea(i know i said it), but i had some nicely modded apex 205's in my drawer that didn't get used much, ever since mark (samar) did his thing, i can't wait to pull them out, they are remarkable imo. As soon as JK's 47 is running, i'll sample some stuff with those mics as well, all the butter of a ribbon with extreme high end extension considering they're ribbons. Indeed. Sometimes personally modded stuff - as good as it is - doesn't stand up to how good they can be in the hands of somebody who does it all day long for a living - like samar or Joly. Joly took most of his "bread and butter" mods directly from places like GroupDIY. He took freely available "for personal use only" intellectual property and turned it into his "for profit" industry. He denies this, but I remember the days when he would ask questions about the mods in the forums before he ended up deleting his presence and going commercial. So to say that he does things that the DIYer can't is false. The problem is that in DIY, people are attempting to get something for nothing and they expect amazing results from small amounts of work.. When they do these mods and they don't get angels descending from the heavens to hand them the voice of god through their modded microphones, they think that they've done something wrong, or that what they did was not as far as they could go, so they end up doing more mods.. And more mods... And more mods.. And more mods, while looking for that mythical beast we call "perfection". Then someone comes along and promises "perfection" with some mods, for a price.. The human psyche tends to believe marketing promises that bolster their hopes and dreams.. And a sale is made. Because they need to spend money on that marketing dream, it now has a monetary worth, and now has psychological support, and thus the end result will "sound" better to them, although the mods are exactly the same as what they could have done. I call it the "ear-wallet syndrome". I know it has an actual technical term but I can't remember it. It happens with audiophiles all the time. They spend stupid amounts of money on things and they "hear" the performance increase of a product that has no tangible and/or measurable difference to something else.
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Post by svart on Dec 31, 2014 9:46:07 GMT -6
There haven't been many instances in modern music where I would choose a ribbon over a condenser for most sources...electric guitar might be one of them though. Agreed. I've tried ribbons on everything after hearing so many love stories about ribbons. Sure they sound fine, but it was very rare that I couldn't find a much better mic for the situation. Except E-guitar. Nothing works better on jazz/blues/rock guitar than a ribbon(in particular an R121 IHMO). I've tried a lot of mics and none just work like a ribbon does. A regular old SM57 is a close second though. Different voices, but pretty equal in how they just work..
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Post by svart on Dec 31, 2014 12:07:18 GMT -6
Indeed. Sometimes personally modded stuff - as good as it is - doesn't stand up to how good they can be in the hands of somebody who does it all day long for a living - like samar or Joly. ...I'm sure that evaluation truly makes Mark "Marik" Fouxman's day (spoken in my most sarcastic tone)... ...any of those who have never used one of Mark's ribbon creations first-hand is more than likely underestimating their quality, versatility and performance, even in the company of restored RCAs, AEA, Coles, Royer, Cloud or any other of the current crop of "boutique" ribbon-mics for that matter...where others emulate older-designs, Mark truly innovates...his integrated short-path ribbon-motor, his original acoustic-plates, his unique acoustic grill mesh, his own toroidal transformers, all designed and most produced in-house...even the specific ribbon-crimping techniques he employs, the man's a genius... recordinghacks.com/2012/04/12/samar-audio-mf65-review/Wait.. Samar is Marik's company? Now THAT makes one hell of a difference in how I think about it. Everyone prattling on about this new Samar company and how awesome it is and so on.. One can only take that with so much salt.. And of course, we've all heard so many love stories about products over the years it's practically impossible to avoid being indifferent or downright negative about every single new "amazing" product that ends up failing to deliver.. But to hear that it's Marik's company, that tells me everything I need to hear. Those Samar ribbons are simply going to be awesome based on just hearing that Marik had something to do with them. He was a super nice and smart cat back in the day, and I'm sure he's only gotten smarter. i remember the time he started making his own ribbon mics back in recording.org/GroupDIY. I'm glad to see he finally got to a point to sell them.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 31, 2014 13:54:27 GMT -6
So how about differences between Samar, R84, and Cascade? How about long vs. Short ribbon? Any decent for vocals? I find that the classic look of the R84 is inspiring to vocalists.
My only ribbon experience is with a 121 on guitar and horns.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 31, 2014 14:11:33 GMT -6
So how about differences between Samar, R84, and Cascade? How about long vs. Short ribbon? Any decent for vocals? I find that the classic look of the R84 is inspiring to vocalists. My only ribbon experience is with a 121 on guitar and horns. I'd love to hear a comparison of those mics too, esp. the Fathead and the Vinjet. I've only heard the 121 and the R84. I can only echo what others said before - the 84 is quite dark/smooth up top, the 121 more extended. I picked up the 84 because it was the most different compared with my other mics, but its my only ribbon, so grain of salt and all that. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 31, 2014 15:55:40 GMT -6
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 31, 2014 16:33:19 GMT -6
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 2, 2015 21:13:52 GMT -6
There haven't been many instances in modern music where I would choose a ribbon over a condenser for most sources...electric guitar might be one of them though. I find blending a ribbon with a nice condenser really adds to the sound. I have a few rca's, and 4 mics modded by Samar. I find I love them all!
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 2, 2015 21:25:47 GMT -6
I should also say I have been on a ribbon mic kick lately. I have been dreaming of a nice simple stereo ribbon mic for drums. Any thoughts on a good stereo ribbon? I want a stereo mic for the simplicity of setup. Maybe I should talk to Samar about them.
I haven't used the Aea or cloud mics but I have used a ton of old RCA's and Coles and Royers.. I like them all. But if I had to use one mic on a single source it would be one of my Samar modded apex 205's. They sound really great.
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Post by kidvybes on Jan 2, 2015 22:10:24 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 2, 2015 22:29:39 GMT -6
There haven't been many instances in modern music where I would choose a ribbon over a condenser for most sources...electric guitar might be one of them though. I find blending a ribbon with a nice condenser really adds to the sound. I have a few rca's, and 4 mics modded by Samar. I find I love them all! I find this combo in a great room, utilizing mid/side can make a source sound 100ft deep. And sorry, i can't stop myself from saying it again lol, my personally modded apex 205's utilizing samars RT32's sounded good, but like junk compared to Mark's installing his ribbons and diffuser plates on those exact mics, they are absolute stunners now, thanx kidvybes for setting me straight on that 8)
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 3, 2015 8:04:30 GMT -6
I should also say I have been on a ribbon mic kick lately. I have been dreaming of a nice simple stereo ribbon mic for drums. Any thoughts on a good stereo ribbon? I want a stereo mic for the simplicity of setup. Maybe I should talk to Samar about them. I haven't used the Aea or cloud mics but I have used a ton of old RCA's and Coles and Royers.. I like them all. But if I had to use one mic on a single source it would be one of my Samar modded apex 205's. They sound really great. AEA R88
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Post by drbill on Jan 3, 2015 17:48:44 GMT -6
I should also say I have been on a ribbon mic kick lately. I have been dreaming of a nice simple stereo ribbon mic for drums. Any thoughts on a good stereo ribbon? I want a stereo mic for the simplicity of setup. Maybe I should talk to Samar about them. I haven't used the Aea or cloud mics but I have used a ton of old RCA's and Coles and Royers.. I like them all. But if I had to use one mic on a single source it would be one of my Samar modded apex 205's. They sound really great. AEA R88 I'd second this for a stereo ribbon Dan.
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Post by drbill on Jan 3, 2015 17:51:12 GMT -6
How about long vs. Short ribbon? Any decent for vocals? I find that the classic look of the R84 is inspiring to vocalists. Generally speaking, a good rule of thumb (and of course, rules are MADE to be BROKEN) -- I like short ribbons on Amps, long ribbons on room, vocals, ac guitars and other strings, tot and horns. i.e.: If it's loud and distorted, I gravitate to short ribbons. If it's not loud and distorted, I'll start with long ribbons -- and adjust to suit taste....
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Post by Ward on Jan 3, 2015 22:41:01 GMT -6
I find blending a ribbon with a nice condenser really adds to the sound. Ever tried a Royer 122?
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 4, 2015 9:03:50 GMT -6
I find blending a ribbon with a nice condenser really adds to the sound. Ever tried a Royer 122? Is that the phantom powered one? Mostly I've used the 121.
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Post by Randge on Jan 4, 2015 10:19:31 GMT -6
I do have lots of ribbons but the 122 is my first grab. It takes eq so well when needed. A+ mic for me.
R
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Post by Randge on Jan 4, 2015 10:22:49 GMT -6
I really like the Fostex M-88 printed ribbon mic also. I have three to multi-mic with. They are versatile mics and really work on a lot of things. I tend to use them when I want a ribbon sound but find my other first choice ribbons to be too dark for the intended purpose.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 4, 2015 15:19:25 GMT -6
Isn't the new N8 supposed to be solar to the r88?
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 4, 2015 15:28:09 GMT -6
R88 is stereo.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 4, 2015 16:02:27 GMT -6
similar is what I meant to say...I was thinking it was the mono version of the R88
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 4, 2015 16:04:19 GMT -6
Guess I'm wrong
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