ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 16:00:10 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 16:00:10 GMT -6
The big deal with RADAR when it first appeared was that it managed to convert many hard core analog tape guys to digital who had been resistant to DAW based recording because of... 1. The sound... 2. The non intuitive appearance of computer based recording... 3. The workflow. Although RADAR used mostly the same converter chips as other manufacturers they took more care in the surrounding analog circuitry. Also RADAR was designed to operate more like a multitrack tape recorder with the traditional physical controls that used buttons. ie. "PLAY", "RECORD", "FAST FORWARD", "REWIND", etc. So it provided a more familiar tactile style of recording than a computer based DAW. Recording without staring at a computer screen can also help some focus more on the actual performance during tracking as the visual complexity of processing information on a screen can be quite distracting at times for many. You forgot rock solid stability and the fact that they have tried to make it as updatable as possible! The early RADAR Converters still hold their own ! I have never understood why nobody took a look at the controller and said " you know we could build something like that for PT or midi!" It feels like your using a recorder not a PC to record lets you do what you need to!
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Post by spock on Sept 9, 2017 16:14:18 GMT -6
Also how IZ weight the converters is part of the secret sauce.
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Deleted
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 16:19:55 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 16:19:55 GMT -6
Do the old Radar 24 have a loud fan that require an iso box ?
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 16:54:33 GMT -6
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Post by spock on Sept 9, 2017 16:54:33 GMT -6
Do the old Radar 24 have a loud fan that require an iso box ? The old units did have a louder fan, however it could be swapped out; FWIW, Lanois & Mark Howard never seemed to have had an issue recording in the same room with it.
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 16:55:13 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Sept 9, 2017 16:55:13 GMT -6
yes, but the large controller has something ie a 30 foot cable.
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 16:55:51 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Sept 9, 2017 16:55:51 GMT -6
the new studio has an upgraded psu and fan.
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 17:32:37 GMT -6
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 17:32:37 GMT -6
If you are mainly just recording yourself rather than running a commercial studio and regularly tracking bands inc. drums etc. and are likely to be transferring files into a DAW for editing regardless, then I think the case for paying the premium for a RADAR system is less compelling.
However if you would like to experiment with a standalone multitrack recorder (no computer involved) with an analog console to get a feel for things, then I would still consider a stock Alesis HD24XR (non modified with no additional computer interface) and see how it works for you.
That way you are only out of pocket for the Alesis which you can resell and recoup your outlay if you decide to go in a different direction.
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 17:41:53 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Sept 9, 2017 17:41:53 GMT -6
understood bu I am pretty used to mixing in logic and that was the point of getting the delta to insert to the delta eq but be mixing in logic, the extra A/D converters were to allow up to 24 channels to link, so don't I need 3 adat ins to pass 24 channels from alesis to daw ?
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 17:45:56 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Sept 9, 2017 17:45:56 GMT -6
Its funny with this discussion as all three: alesis, apogee symphony mki 16x16 and a radar 24 system seem to be available ranging from around $900 to $2500 usd not including shipping etc..
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 17:47:04 GMT -6
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 17:47:04 GMT -6
understood bu I am pretty used to mixing in logic and that was the point of getting the delta to insert to the delta eq but be mixing in logic, the extra A/D converters were to allow up to 24 channels to link, so don't I need 3 adat ins to pass 24 channels from alesis to daw ? OK. Obviously this thread kind of went off on a tangent somewhat with the various options a hybrid setup can offer. So you are basically just using the console as outboard hardware EQ inserts.
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 18:23:20 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Sept 9, 2017 18:23:20 GMT -6
That was the initial attraction for getting the delta: 4 band eq while mixing I am a singer songwriter who mostly does 1-2 track recording but sometimes drums so 6-8 but given the costs of the different converter options, I asked the question about the radar, as I didn't know much about them and there are 6 for sale currently.
I am grateful for everything everyone contributed because I have learned a lot.
The alesis and radar units are older, the symphony module is 6 months old: it is the simplest solution: plug and play 24 converters: done.
I have not heard back from the one radar unit I was interested in or the apogee guy; so its a waiting game.
I don't have to buy anything and can just start using the delta with my 8x8 symphony, (plus the 8200) learn and then decide later too.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 18:28:39 GMT -6
That was the initial attraction for getting the delta: 4 band eq while mixing I am a singer songwriter who mostly does 1-2 track recording but sometimes drums so 6-8 but given the costs of the different converter options, I asked the question about the radar, as I didn't know much about them and there are 6 for sale currently. I am grateful for everything everyone contributed because I have learned a lot. The alesis and radar units are older, the symphony module is 6 months old: it is the simplest solution: plug and play 24 converters: done. I have not heard back from the one radar unit I was interested in or the apogee guy; so its a waiting game. I don't have to buy anything and can just start using the delta with my 8x8 symphony, (plus the 8200) learn and then decide later too. "... I don't have to buy anything and can just start using the delta with my 8x8 symphony, (plus the 8200) learn and then decide later too." Exactly!
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Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 22:20:06 GMT -6
Do the old Radar 24 have a loud fan that require an iso box ? I found it an issue on the 24 only with quiet overdubs or hushed singer/songwriter types. It was part of my decision to upgrade to a newer Studio unit. MUCH quieter. Lanois and Howard are doing rock-and-roll. Not-an-issue.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,009
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 22:25:42 GMT -6
Do the old Radar 24 have a loud fan that require an iso box ? I found it an issue on the 24 only with quiet overdubs or hushed singer/songwriter types. It was part of my decision to upgrade to a newer Studio unit. MUCH quieter. Lanois and Howard are doing rock-and-roll. Not-an-issue. No more an issue than a Mac Pro, actually less!
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Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 22:42:43 GMT -6
I found it an issue on the 24 only with quiet overdubs or hushed singer/songwriter types. It was part of my decision to upgrade to a newer Studio unit. MUCH quieter. Lanois and Howard are doing rock-and-roll. Not-an-issue. No more an issue than a Mac Pro, actually less! I was tracking a super quiet young singer/songwriter recently with my Studio and I found that in Workstation mode (running Win8.1 and ProTools 12), the PSU fan on the RADAR Studio was still quite audible. I booted into normal RADAR mode and tracked her that way but I was irked that I STILL had noise issues from the unit. My solution? 20m extension cables for all the analog I/O and other computer connectivity. Wanna see the MOST UN-SEXY way to spend $2500? Behold....
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,009
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 22:55:34 GMT -6
No more an issue than a Mac Pro, actually less! I was tracking a super quiet young singer/songwriter recently with my Studio and I found that in Workstation mode (running Win8.1 and ProTools 12), the PSU fan on the RADAR Studio was still quite audible. I booted into normal RADAR mode and tracked her that way but I was irked that I STILL had noise issues from the unit. My solution? 20m extension cables for all the analog I/O and other computer connectivity. Wanna see the MOST UN-SEXY way to spend $2500? Behold.... I never want to know how much I have spent on fing wire over the last 30 odd years ! It would probably pay for a Ferrari!
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 23:03:59 GMT -6
Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 23:03:59 GMT -6
I've counted around $40,000 on interconnect/patchbays/cables and that's terminating a lot of it myself DIY. I never would have thought that when I started out but it adds up! It's not just the cost of those new compressors, it's getting their I/O to the patchbay that adds additional expense. That said, I love my layout of my mobile rig where ALL my stuff routes to my TT bays. Super easy to setup and switch gear around w/o having to fight Medusa in the back of a dark rack when the pressure is on!
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Post by spock on Sept 9, 2017 23:43:36 GMT -6
Over time, fans in any machine can become noisy or seemingly louder, this can be mitigated by cleaning the fan blades of dust buildup.
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Radar
Sept 10, 2017 5:32:31 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Sept 10, 2017 5:32:31 GMT -6
so, the guy with probably the apogee mki 16x16 module, (he is suggesting its a mkii but in his pics I only see a mki chassis), seems to refuse to ship it, wants me to do like a 12 hour return drive and wants cash, i.e., I walk in to some place I don't know with 2 grand in my pocket to pick up a card that he says is working but that I can't test.
I would buy it with paypal as then it is insured and I am protected.
He has a bunch of high end gear for sale maybe its all legit but,,
Thoughts ?
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Post by rowmat on Sept 10, 2017 5:56:48 GMT -6
so, the guy with probably the apogee mki 16x16 module, (he is suggesting its a mkii but in his pics I only see a mki chassis), seems to refuse to ship it, wants me to do like a 12 hour return drive and wants cash, i.e., I walk in to some place I don't know with 2 grand in my pocket to pick up a card that he says is working but that I can't test. I would buy it with paypal as then it is insured and I am protected. He has a bunch of high end gear for sale maybe its all legit but,, Thoughts ? Lemme see... 1. Tells you it's a MKII when it's likely not. 2. Doesn't want to ship it. 3. Wants you to drive 6 hours to get it. 4. Only wants cash. 5. Has a bunch of high end gear for sale. Has a studio in his area been robbed recently? Sounds like unless you want to be on the 6 o'clock news I would probably forget it. Where did he place the ad? Is it crazy cheap as in... "Too good to be true" cheap? That will be a give away.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,009
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Post by ericn on Sept 10, 2017 6:43:35 GMT -6
so, the guy with probably the apogee mki 16x16 module, (he is suggesting its a mkii but in his pics I only see a mki chassis), seems to refuse to ship it, wants me to do like a 12 hour return drive and wants cash, i.e., I walk in to some place I don't know with 2 grand in my pocket to pick up a card that he says is working but that I can't test. I would buy it with paypal as then it is insured and I am protected. He has a bunch of high end gear for sale maybe its all legit but,, Thoughts ? Walk away!
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Radar
Sept 10, 2017 8:06:36 GMT -6
Post by keymod on Sept 10, 2017 8:06:36 GMT -6
The new Studio does run ua cards in the daw but I believe you still need a uad card in the radar or in external chassis. Correct, but only using the Windows PC Side with a DAW, not in RADAR mode.
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Radar
Sept 10, 2017 9:21:32 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 10, 2017 9:21:32 GMT -6
Price is about right for used mki, he may just be confused or overselling, saying it's mkii but worked in a mki chassis is incorrect
One foot heading away I asked for a number to discuss: so far, No response , doesn't look good !!
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Post by spindrift on Sept 10, 2017 9:52:20 GMT -6
Trust your gut.
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Radar
Sept 10, 2017 13:08:50 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 10, 2017 13:08:50 GMT -6
Someone said earlier in the thread that RADAR boxes are just Windows 8.1 Workstations.... Not "just Win 8.1 workstations", which would imply just a run of the mill box. They're optimized for the task of recording. Windows was added as a relatively recent feature, due to popular demand.
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