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Post by jeromemason on Jun 27, 2018 20:47:58 GMT -6
Well the S2 runs it's own clock no matter what, but it does reference. In the aggregate devices (Mac at least) it'll ask you what you want to be the main clock source, you'd select your main interface and the S2 would reference off it through the aggregate device setup. The only thing I've ever noticed about going the aggregate device route is that it can have some latency, but that's not all the time, sometimes I had issues with it, sometimes I didn't, YMMV.
I will tell you that having a really good reference clock for the S2 absolutely makes it sound better. I know it uses it's own 100 femto clock, but the more solid the reference the better the S2 will sound, and I've tried that out many times, there's a clear difference. I use the BLA MKIII to lock everything together, it's great and will head up to 368khz.
How are you liking the the MQA now that the S2 is decoding it? Pretty incredible yeah? Also, just curious, why not just let your interface send playback to the S2? Does your interface go up to ultra high sample rates? You can run the S2's USB input and Spdif input at the same time. That's how I do it at least, I tell Tidal to use the S2 as it's playback.
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Post by bram on Jun 27, 2018 22:38:21 GMT -6
How are you liking the the MQA now that the S2 is decoding it? Pretty incredible yeah? Also, just curious, why not just let your interface send playback to the S2? Does your interface go up to ultra high sample rates? You can run the S2's USB input and Spdif input at the same time. That's how I do it at least, I tell Tidal to use the S2 as it's playback. Oh right on, I didn't realize it was possible to have both USB and optical connected simultaneously. Best of both worlds and no aggregate device worries! So far it's been SPDIF out of the Apollo -> MiniDSP (upsamples to 192) -> S2. edit: I forgot that I won't be able to go through the miniDSP room correction when using USB playback. I just got back into town so I haven't had a chance to check out the MQA playback yet. I'll be able to spend some time listening tomorrow. Thanks for the info Jerome.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 27, 2018 22:50:49 GMT -6
I have Dirac but it is the software version, the nice thing about that is you can create correction filters for multiple speakers, multiple sound cards. On my version of Dirac I can keep the same correction filters but just assign a different device as the output.
But, alas, I don't even use Dirac anymore..... I kinda like it a little off and would rather know what my room sounds like because for some reason my mixes always seemed to sound flat dynamically with Dirac. Expensive as hell for that software, and I praised it for a long time but I started doing mixes w/o it a few times and my mixes were completely different dynamically. Still don't understand that to this day.
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Post by bram on Jun 27, 2018 23:04:54 GMT -6
I've been going back and forth as to whether or not to keep on the Dirac train. It was a big investment to get the miniDSP box. I've just picked up a Metric Halo Lio-8 to test out and with the new 3D upgrade coming out soon, it looks like you can apply EQ curves to your different outputs directly in the MIO console. It would certainly be worth a comparison applying the curve derived from the Dirac measurement to the Lio. No external boxes/plugins/etc.. I know Dirac claims to correct for phase/transient response, but I can't say I've noticed a difference in that domain. For my heavily treated small room at least, room correction has helped clean up the low end bloom considerably, although I've been curious what it would be like to mix a song without it one of these days.
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Post by svart on Jun 28, 2018 6:02:05 GMT -6
Well the S2 runs it's own clock no matter what, but it does reference. In the aggregate devices (Mac at least) it'll ask you what you want to be the main clock source, you'd select your main interface and the S2 would reference off it through the aggregate device setup. The only thing I've ever noticed about going the aggregate device route is that it can have some latency, but that's not all the time, sometimes I had issues with it, sometimes I didn't, YMMV. I will tell you that having a really good reference clock for the S2 absolutely makes it sound better. I know it uses it's own 100 femto clock, but the more solid the reference the better the S2 will sound, and I've tried that out many times, there's a clear difference. I use the BLA MKIII to lock everything together, it's great and will head up to 368khz. How are you liking the the MQA now that the S2 is decoding it? Pretty incredible yeah? Also, just curious, why not just let your interface send playback to the S2? Does your interface go up to ultra high sample rates? You can run the S2's USB input and Spdif input at the same time. That's how I do it at least, I tell Tidal to use the S2 as it's playback. 100 femto is ridiculously good, and in fact I doubt it's really that good. That sounds like a de-embedded datasheet measurement. Anyway, there isn't an external box on the planet that can match that once you factor in the cabling, connectors, buffering, reclocking, etc. That would only be obtainable inside a unit with short, matched traces and shielding.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 28, 2018 9:22:24 GMT -6
Michal of Mytek told me he had a 10 ps clock jitter rate that went up to 100 ps once run through a 3" pcb trace. Getting great clock specs is an art form. The chip manufacturers don't tell you how to do that.
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Post by svart on Jun 28, 2018 11:06:48 GMT -6
Michal of Mytek told me he had a 10 ps clock jitter rate that went up to 100 ps once run through a 3" pcb trace. Getting great clock specs is an art form. The chip manufacturers don't tell you how to do that. That sounds like reflection issues on a non-impedance controlled transmission line. In these cases, the type of signal trace matters, with stripline having better performance and the jitter decreasing as the copper losses decrease and any stubs (vias, tees, etc) are minimized. Unfortunately even the most seasoned mixed signal designers just don't have the background for proper transmission line design. It's not black magic, but there are considerations that need to be made that don't make sense to those who aren't familiar.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 28, 2018 11:34:39 GMT -6
Still..... 100 femto even if it's at a multiple of 10 is crazy impressive.
I do know that I read on some of the HiFi forums that the PSU for the S2 made a big difference in the jitter rate. I've about decided to design and build my own PSU for mine.
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Post by winetree on Jun 28, 2018 12:11:40 GMT -6
Still..... 100 femto even if it's at a multiple of 10 is crazy impressive. I do know that I read on some of the HiFi forums that the PSU for the S2 made a big difference in the jitter rate. I've about decided to design and build my own PSU for mine. The S2 instructions says don't use an external P.S. if your powering from the U.S.B. input. Don't use both power supplies together.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 28, 2018 13:00:58 GMT -6
Still..... 100 femto even if it's at a multiple of 10 is crazy impressive. I do know that I read on some of the HiFi forums that the PSU for the S2 made a big difference in the jitter rate. I've about decided to design and build my own PSU for mine. This is a big turn off for me on this. If this thing needs work under the hood to sound good, then it makes me less interested. The reviews on Amazon were pretty consistent in finding fault with the PSU jack that easily breaks.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 28, 2018 13:20:17 GMT -6
Still..... 100 femto even if it's at a multiple of 10 is crazy impressive. I do know that I read on some of the HiFi forums that the PSU for the S2 made a big difference in the jitter rate. I've about decided to design and build my own PSU for mine. The S2 instructions says don't use an external P.S. if your powering from the U.S.B. input. Don't use both power supplies together. If you are running an external PSU the power from the USB is discarded automatically from the S2, so it will always use the external supply, USB or not.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 28, 2018 13:25:24 GMT -6
Still..... 100 femto even if it's at a multiple of 10 is crazy impressive. I do know that I read on some of the HiFi forums that the PSU for the S2 made a big difference in the jitter rate. I've about decided to design and build my own PSU for mine. This is a big turn off for me on this. If this thing needs work under the hood to sound good, then it makes me less interested. The reviews on Amazon were pretty consistent in finding fault with the PSU jack that easily breaks. Here's my thing, the unit cost's $399, I can tell you that for a DAC you would have to spend well into the $2k's to get the quality of sound this little box gives you. They give you an external supply, it's not bad, and doesn't seem flimsy to me. Even running the unit w/o the external supply from the USB buss of your laptop, the S2 sounds great. But, what I'm talking about is my own geekiness, my own want to improve if I can. I do it with almost any gear I own, I always try and find a way to make it better if it's worth it. IMO anyone that's willing to criticize this box after they buy it for $399 either doesn't fully understand audio or just wants to bitch about something. That's just my opinion.
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Post by winetree on Jun 28, 2018 14:43:50 GMT -6
This is a big turn off for me on this. If this thing needs work under the hood to sound good, then it makes me less interested. The reviews on Amazon were pretty consistent in finding fault with the PSU jack that easily breaks. Here's my thing, the unit cost's $399, I can tell you that for a DAC you would have to spend well into the $2k's to get the quality of sound this little box gives you. They give you an external supply, it's not bad, and doesn't seem flimsy to me. Even running the unit w/o the external supply from the USB buss of your laptop, the S2 sounds great. But, what I'm talking about is my own geekiness, my own want to improve if I can. I do it with almost any gear I own, I always try and find a way to make it better if it's worth it. IMO anyone that's willing to criticize this box after they buy it for $399 either doesn't fully understand audio or just wants to bitch about something. That's just my opinion. On the P.S. vs. USB, Thanks for the info. I do the same, if there's a mod, I'll do it. S2 no internal mods necessary. P.S.?
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 28, 2018 14:56:48 GMT -6
This is a big turn off for me on this. If this thing needs work under the hood to sound good, then it makes me less interested. The reviews on Amazon were pretty consistent in finding fault with the PSU jack that easily breaks. Here's my thing, the unit cost's $399, I can tell you that for a DAC you would have to spend well into the $2k's to get the quality of sound this little box gives you. They give you an external supply, it's not bad, and doesn't seem flimsy to me. Even running the unit w/o the external supply from the USB buss of your laptop, the S2 sounds great. But, what I'm talking about is my own geekiness, my own want to improve if I can. I do it with almost any gear I own, I always try and find a way to make it better if it's worth it. IMO anyone that's willing to criticize this box after they buy it for $399 either doesn't fully understand audio or just wants to bitch about something. That's just my opinion. Very cool man. I’m into checking this out, for sure. Let me know if you go through with the PSU mod and if that improves things.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 28, 2018 15:18:58 GMT -6
Here's my thing, the unit cost's $399, I can tell you that for a DAC you would have to spend well into the $2k's to get the quality of sound this little box gives you. They give you an external supply, it's not bad, and doesn't seem flimsy to me. Even running the unit w/o the external supply from the USB buss of your laptop, the S2 sounds great. But, what I'm talking about is my own geekiness, my own want to improve if I can. I do it with almost any gear I own, I always try and find a way to make it better if it's worth it. IMO anyone that's willing to criticize this box after they buy it for $399 either doesn't fully understand audio or just wants to bitch about something. That's just my opinion. On the P.S. vs. USB, Thanks for the info. I do the same, if there's a mod, I'll do it. S2 no internal mods necessary. P.S.? I'd never touch anything inside the box for sure..... They did a great job. The PSU, building a solid PSU with a mini USB connector is def in the plans for me. Probably can scratch something together and run it through SPICE to see how much noise I can get out of the DC. I've never designed a PSU for digital stuff, but from what I've gathered it's all about smooth steady clean and plenty of current on tap.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 29, 2018 9:25:04 GMT -6
The S2 uses ESS's voltage regulators inside. The quality of the DC source voltage isn't as important as it might be with other stuff. They also claim to clean up the USB voltage feeds internally.
If anyone can find anything with this level of design and build quality for anywhere near it's $399 price, I'm all ears.
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Post by bram on Jun 29, 2018 13:21:37 GMT -6
How are you liking the the MQA now that the S2 is decoding it? Pretty incredible yeah? Doing the USB test right now with some Gaucho MQA. No contest. I remember reading the word "Liquid" a few times in this thread, that's an appropriate analogy. I set the S2 to 768k in Audio/MIDI setup. USB vs Optical connection (96k) is night and day. and Kcat: No glitches or bugs encountered from the USB connection on Sierra (10.12.6)
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 29, 2018 13:29:13 GMT -6
The S2 uses ESS's voltage regulators inside. The quality of the DC source voltage isn't as important as it might be with other stuff. They also claim to clean up the USB voltage feeds internally. If anyone can find anything with this level of design and build quality for anywhere near it's $399 price, I'm all ears. Hey Jim, Regarding ESS, every damn component they offer is just killing it, best I've ever heard, like the headphone amp, DAC chips etc and those regulators, the specs are really incredible. So how long do you think it will be before they'll offer an A/D? The next interface I buy after my Motu 16a will have the newest gen ESS D/A with a dedicated S2'ish monitor out. Then, when ESS does come out with their A/D 16 channels of that and hopefully a dedicated 2 channel A/D that is for capture, hopefully destroying even the best Lavry's out there. I'm just wondering how long it will be before ESS makes this all possible, all they need to do is make the A/D chip, it'll be the best out there if it's anywhere close to what they're putting out right now.
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Post by winetree on Jun 29, 2018 15:01:20 GMT -6
Jim and I talked about using the new chip on an A/D conversion. I'm sure he'll fill us in.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 29, 2018 16:15:43 GMT -6
Jim and I talked about using the new chip on an A/D conversion. I'm sure he'll fill us in. Oooh, now it's getting really interesting.
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Post by svart on Jun 29, 2018 16:27:02 GMT -6
The S2 uses ESS's voltage regulators inside. The quality of the DC source voltage isn't as important as it might be with other stuff. They also claim to clean up the USB voltage feeds internally. If anyone can find anything with this level of design and build quality for anywhere near it's $399 price, I'm all ears. Hey Jim, Regarding ESS, every damn component they offer is just killing it, best I've ever heard, like the headphone amp, DAC chips etc and those regulators, the specs are really incredible. So how long do you think it will be before they'll offer an A/D? The next interface I buy after my Motu 16a will have the newest gen ESS D/A with a dedicated S2'ish monitor out. Then, when ESS does come out with their A/D 16 channels of that and hopefully a dedicated 2 channel A/D that is for capture, hopefully destroying even the best Lavry's out there. I'm just wondering how long it will be before ESS makes this all possible, all they need to do is make the A/D chip, it'll be the best out there if it's anywhere close to what they're putting out right now. Man, where were you fanboys when I was trying to sell my converters two years ago?
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Post by winetree on Jun 29, 2018 17:00:31 GMT -6
#1 Fan Boy I bought 2 of your converters.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 29, 2018 17:14:27 GMT -6
eBay has a coupon for 15% off today only (PERFECTDAY), making the S2 $340 (free shipping) from Audio Advisor. I think they might only have one left.
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Post by nudwig on Jun 29, 2018 23:58:18 GMT -6
eBay has a coupon for 15% off today only (PERFECTDAY), making the S2 $340 (free shipping) from Audio Advisor. I think they might only have one left. Thanks for the tip, I just snagged one. Excited to try it out.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 30, 2018 1:42:02 GMT -6
If anyone can find anything with this level of design and build quality for anywhere near it's $399 price, I'm all ears. I am all ears to hear how long the units will work... the brand is not famous in the long run here in E.U. thats why I am sceptical and why I stay with my DA10.
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