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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 1, 2017 14:59:40 GMT -6
Anyone know about this stuff. Free pianos and organs all over the Craigslist. Now that I've got a proper studio, maybe it would be worthwhile to invent in some free keys? What's good? What's bad? What to look for? Etc.
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Post by john on Nov 1, 2017 15:41:33 GMT -6
main thing is persistence and patience in the search for these goodies. most my keys were free to cheap due to whatever circumstance occurred. my Rhodes was misspelled as Rodes and listed at $200. It was only up for 30 minutes when I saw it and I was the first person to respond. I had been waiting for a good deal for over a year.
I was all set to pay $150 for my Farfisa Compact but when I arrived the guy said "I cant get it to play, just take it." Got it home and it was fine.
grab a Hammond M3. They are usually cheap and plentiful. Great sound. I paid $100 for mine and it was like new from the 50s.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 1, 2017 16:00:32 GMT -6
I have no personal experience with this, but i know that lots of people claim that you should bring a piano tech with you when buying a piano used, so you don't accidentally buy a piece of firewood.
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Post by ragan on Nov 1, 2017 16:05:55 GMT -6
I'm no expert but I happen to really love the Hammond M1-- series and they're way cheaper than B3 range Hammonds. If you're lucky, you could find one with the Leslie mod already in it. Even without though they sound really nice. I think I paid $150 for mine. Showroom condition. Had been in a funeral home and then an old couple's living room. Just get some oil and learn how to oil it. Once a year or so.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 1, 2017 16:14:25 GMT -6
Free is good, better if you know what your getting yourself into. There is often a reason why this stuff is free, but there are gems out there so your probably going to have to sift through garbage and if you have a truck it's much easier. Try to find a tech nearby that knows old keys, and a piano tech!
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Post by sean on Nov 1, 2017 16:31:15 GMT -6
If you have the room an upright is useful, we have a Hammond by Baldwin that was free and we hardened the hammers and it's a really cool, unique sound. Mic it from behind the sound board and it's a really nice sound. We also use our B3 all the time but a M3 is a good cheaper alternative. Also use our Wurlitzer a lot. Other stuff I've picked up over the years like Farfisas and stuff hardly get used but for the cheap price I picked them up for they are worth having around
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Post by rowmat on Nov 1, 2017 16:31:18 GMT -6
We love our 'Cheesy Keys'!
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Post by bradd on Nov 1, 2017 19:48:31 GMT -6
Look for a Hammond A100 series. They are the same guts as a B3 and C3, but have a built-in tone cabinet. They are bargains, selling for far less than B3s. Same sound, 1/3 the price.
Pianos are hard. If you are not a player, at least take a player with you. There is a lot of junk out there. Good luck.
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Post by drbill on Nov 1, 2017 20:26:36 GMT -6
I'm presuming you're looking for "free" or next to free....
that said, as far a piano's go, one question will weed out the need to go out and sift through most of the junk - as them for the name and number of their piano tech so you can speak with him. You might miss a few bargains, but you'll weed out 9 out of 10 pieces of junk that haven't been taken care of.
As for "what".... The dream setup would be :
Yamaha C7 Hammond B3 w/ 122 Leslie Wurlitzer EPno Rhodes EPho Upright Piano
But you're not getting any of those for free.... :-)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 1, 2017 20:38:59 GMT -6
We love our 'Cheesy Keys'! Umm CHEESE!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 2, 2017 5:43:27 GMT -6
I'm presuming you're looking for "free" or next to free.... that said, as far a piano's go, one question will weed out the need to go out and sift through most of the junk - as them for the name and number of their piano tech so you can speak with him. You might miss a few bargains, but you'll weed out 9 out of 10 pieces of junk that haven't been taken care of. As for "what".... The dream setup would be : Yamaha C7 Hammond B3 w/ 122 Leslie Wurlitzer EPno Rhodes EPho Upright Piano But you're not getting any of those for free.... :-) I think that a lot of free stuff is people buying homes, showing up, and there is a piano there that they don't want. Those people won't have a tech, but could still have some decent pieces. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in an upright? Brands to look for? Construction? The tall ones have longer strings and presumably better sound, or no? I'll probably end up grabbing a Hammond (M1 or M3?) and an upright.
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Post by rowmat on Nov 2, 2017 7:08:57 GMT -6
We love our 'Cheesy Keys'! Umm CHEESE! Are you crackers?
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2017 7:45:35 GMT -6
No just born and bread Wisconsin Cheese head, who did sound for the president of the worlds largest cheese distributor in our youth. so yeah probably a bit crackers. My wife who spent her teens in Holland once, was scoring me for miss pronouncing a type of cheese in the market, I ask her to pronounce the small WI town it's made in and she murders it so we decided we are even in our Cheese knowledge!
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2017 7:50:00 GMT -6
On a more serious note, a piano is a big heavy complicated machine free is good but unless you have an easy way of dealing with any expensive projects that are over your head ( there are local charities that restore old pianos and sell them for charities) having some one who really knows pianos you could become the piano graveyard.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 2, 2017 14:42:44 GMT -6
Anyone know about this stuff. Free pianos and organs all over the Craigslist. Now that I've got a proper studio, maybe it would be worthwhile to invent in some free keys? What's good? What's bad? What to look for? Etc. Had long time love realtionship with a piano tech. You need something in good conditon, the tech can refresh it at you studio. Profesional Piano transport service is also a good advise.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 2, 2017 17:54:30 GMT -6
I had one given and delivered, turned out it wouldn't tune. Same guy luckily came back and took it away. I have an upright Kimball with great tone, but the action on Kimballs is apparently known to be slow and clunky. It's fine for many things.
Here's a quote from a guy who was in Southern Culture On The Skids for awhile, in response to playing my Kimball on a rockabilly session:
“Kimball, the Harmony Rocket of the piano world”. "First affordable mass manufactured piano, and they sound like it. Get a Baldwin for R&R."
YMMV of course....
I gave in to an M100 when the antique place next door had one I could wheel over. Chopped the single speed rotary speaker out of a Gulbransen that needed to go away, and added direct out to the M100. Works great for anything but a real Hammond guy, they look down their noses at anything other than a B3/122-147.
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Post by bradd on Nov 2, 2017 18:36:45 GMT -6
I grew up playing a Baldwin Acrosonic. It was the most toneless piece of firewood I have ever played. The best uprights I have played are the Yamaha U series, and you won’t get one of those for free.
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Post by keymod on Nov 3, 2017 7:20:07 GMT -6
One of the bigger gear mistakes I ever made was getting rid of my M3. Luckily, I still have the 145 Leslie that ran with it.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2017 14:28:48 GMT -6
grab a Hammond M3. They are usually cheap and plentiful. Great sound. I paid $100 for mine and it was like new from the 50s. Yeah. M3s are real baby tonewheel organs just like their big brothers in the B and C series. The "3" designates percussion stops, "2" is no percussion. The "M" identifiers it as a spinet form factor, which one octave shorter keyboards and lack the white on black (reverse color) keys that the bigger organs use to select presets. The M series only has one octave of bass pedals. Be aware that all Hammond tonewheel organs, being electromechanical in nature, require periodic application of special Hammond organ oil, which is is added into little cups on top of the tonewheel assembly. If the organ hasn't been properly lubricated in a while the tonewheel assembly may not spin at a proper or consistent speed or might be completely frozen up, requiring disassembly and painstaking service. If some moron has tried lubricating it with the wrong oil the entire mechanism might be really gummed up, which would require disassembly and careful cleaning out of all the congealed gunk. Tonewheel organs also use two motors to spin the tonewheel mechanism, one non-synchronous starter motor to bring everything up to speed from a standstill and one synchronous motor which is then switched on to lock to the line frequency and keep everything spinning in tune. Each motor has its own switch - the starter has a spring loaded nonlocking type so it springs back to off after the synchronous main main motor has taken over and the main motor has a regular locking type so it stays on once engaged until it's manually switched off. Needless to say, both motors must be in good operating condition for the organ to work. Be aware that any Hammond tonewheel organ that has been sitting unused for any significant amount of time is almost certainly going to require having the tonewheel mechanism disassembled and cleaned before it's likely to work, just like an old vintage car that's been sitting unused in a barn for years and years without being periodically fired up. Gotta love electromechanical technology!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 3, 2017 15:06:14 GMT -6
grab a Hammond M3. They are usually cheap and plentiful. Great sound. I paid $100 for mine and it was like new from the 50s. Yeah. M3s are real baby tonewheel organs just like their big brothers in the B and C series. The "3" designates percussion stops, "2" is no percussion. The "M" identifiers it as a spinet form factor, which one octave shorter keyboards and lack the white on black (reverse color) keys that the bigger organs use to select presets. The M series only has one octave of bass pedals. Be aware that all Hammond tonewheel organs, being electromechanical in nature, require periodic application of special Hammond organ oil, which is is added into little cups on top of the tonewheel assembly. If the organ hasn't been properly lubricated in a while the tonewheel assembly may not spin at a proper or consistent speed or might be completely frozen up, requiring disassembly and painstaking service. If some moron has tried lubricating it with the wrong oil the entire mechanism might be really gummed up, which would require disassembly and careful cleaning out of all the congealed gunk. Tonewheel organs also use two motors to spin the tonewheel mechanism, one non-synchronous starter motor to bring everything up to speed from a standstill and one synchronous motor which is then switched on to lock to the line frequency and keep everything spinning in tune. Each motor has its own switch - the starter has a spring loaded nonlocking type so it springs back to off after the synchronous main main motor has taken over and the main motor has a regular locking type so it stays on once engaged until it's manually switched off. Needless to say, both motors must be in good operating condition for the organ to work. Be aware that any Hammond tonewheel organ that has been sitting unused for any significant amount of time is almost certainly going to require having the tonewheel mechanism disassembled and cleaned before it's likely to work, just like an old vintage car that's been sitting unused in a barn for years and years without being periodically fired up. Gotta love electromechanical technology! Are both of these M3's? What's the deal with the different keys up top?
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2017 15:12:05 GMT -6
The really important thing to be aware of with upright (or any) pianos is that if they're really old and have not been maintaned at concert pitch they probably can't be. This is becuse the iron in the frame crystallizes over time and if hasn't been kept undert tension the crystallized iron will crack under the increased tension. I doln't know if erven incrementally raising the tension in small steps over a long period of time would be able to overcome this. Frankly I'm doubtful.
If you find an old upright that has been maintained under proper tension the odds are it's going to have pretty dull, dead sounding tone. That's b ecause tyhe strings have been on there forever and need replacement by a professional piano tech. This is a fairly expensive proposition, but it will bring the old beast back to life and piano strings do last a long time. At the same have the action gone over to replace all the little worn out parts, flattened felt washers, etc. By the time you're done you'll have expended a fair amount of cash on your "free" piano, but if chosen werll it will be worth it.
Avoid spinet style ("low boy") pianos like the plague - the strings are too short tyo ever produce decent tone. And tghe majority of spinets "played" (I'm an horrible piano player) have tended toward slow, mushy action, even when more or less new.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2017 15:55:50 GMT -6
Yeah. M3s are real baby tonewheel organs just like their big brothers in the B and C series. The "3" designates percussion stops, "2" is no percussion. The "M" identifiers it as a spinet form factor, which one octave shorter keyboards and lack the white on black (reverse color) keys that the bigger organs use to select presets. The M series only has one octave of bass pedals. Be aware that all Hammond tonewheel organs, being electromechanical in nature, require periodic application of special Hammond organ oil, which is is added into little cups on top of the tonewheel assembly. If the organ hasn't been properly lubricated in a while the tonewheel assembly may not spin at a proper or consistent speed or might be completely frozen up, requiring disassembly and painstaking service. If some moron has tried lubricating it with the wrong oil the entire mechanism might be really gummed up, which would require disassembly and careful cleaning out of all the congealed gunk. Tonewheel organs also use two motors to spin the tonewheel mechanism, one non-synchronous starter motor to bring everything up to speed from a standstill and one synchronous motor which is then switched on to lock to the line frequency and keep everything spinning in tune. Each motor has its own switch - the starter has a spring loaded nonlocking type so it springs back to off after the synchronous main main motor has taken over and the main motor has a regular locking type so it stays on once engaged until it's manually switched off. Needless to say, both motors must be in good operating condition for the organ to work. Be aware that any Hammond tonewheel organ that has been sitting unused for any significant amount of time is almost certainly going to require having the tonewheel mechanism disassembled and cleaned before it's likely to work, just like an old vintage car that's been sitting unused in a barn for years and years without being periodically fired up. Gotta love electromechanical technology! Are both of these M3's? What's the deal with the different keys up top? I don't remember the M3 having flip tabs for presets like the top one. In fact I'm pretty certain it didn't. That might be one of the more"modern" fully electronic models that didn't use topnewheels. It's been a long time, but the bottom one looks about right. No flip tabs, check. Does have rocker switches, check. The things to look for is the presence of the two bat handle or toggle switches mounted side by side beneath the keyboard on the vertical cabinet panel. Don't remember which side they were on. I'm thinking the left but could be wtong. If those switches are present it's a tonewheel organ. Next thing to look for is the presence of pecussion stops, probably actuated by rocker switches. One will switch percussion on (IIRC), one will select between two possible harmonics for the percussion. If it has tonewheels and percussion it's an M3. If it has tonewheels but no percussion it's an M2. Just the fact that an organ has drawbars does not neccessarily mean it has tonewheels, many later fully electronic models also had drawbars.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2017 16:09:42 GMT -6
I'm presuming you're looking for "free" or next to free.... that said, as far a piano's go, one question will weed out the need to go out and sift through most of the junk - as them for the name and number of their piano tech so you can speak with him. You might miss a few bargains, but you'll weed out 9 out of 10 pieces of junk that haven't been taken care of. As for "what".... The dream setup would be : Yamaha C7 Hammond B3 w/ 122 Leslie Wurlitzer EPno Rhodes EPho Upright Piano But you're not getting any of those for free.... :-) There are a lot of free uprights, but you have to be careful that the piano has been kept up to pitch (regardless of whether it's really in tune as long as the tension is there).If it has been allowed to slip significantly below concert pitch it probably can't be brought up to pitch without the (now crystallized) cast iron frame cracking and when that happens it's done - feed it to a trebuchet. You can't weld antique cast iron. When I had to leave my place in the City we had to leave behind the 1870s vintage Mason and Hamlin upright that had been since the building was new because I couldn't afford the extra expense of moving it out of the second floor flat and having it trucked 60 miles. The piano was about as as old as the building and still held perfect concert pitch, although it badly needed restringing. Wish I could have taken it - the new landlords didn't want the old thing, they wanted to gussy up the place as cheaply as possible and rent it to tech yuppies for 3 times what we'd been paying. And there was a piano tuner/tech's shop right across the street.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 3, 2017 16:16:43 GMT -6
Are both of these M3's? What's the deal with the different keys up top? I don't remember the M3 having flip tabs for presets like the top one. In fact I'm pretty certain it didn't. That might be one of the more"modern" fully electronic models that didn't use topnewheels. It's been a long time, but the bottom one looks about right. No flip tabs, check. Does have rocker switches, check. The things to look for is the presence of the two bat handle or toggle switches mounted side by side beneath the keyboard on the vertical cabinet panel. Don't remember which side they were on. I'm thinking the left but could be wtong. If those switches are present it's a tonewheel organ. Next thing to look for is the presence of pecussion stops, probably actuated by rocker switches. One will switch percussion on (IIRC), one will select between two possible harmonics for the percussion. If it has tonewheels and percussion it's an M3. If it has tonewheels but no percussion it's an M2. Just the fact that an organ has drawbars does not neccessarily mean it has tonewheels, many later fully electronic models also had drawbars. The second image without the flip tabs says M3 on the label. It's also free and 20 minutes away. Hopefully grabbing it tomorrow.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2017 16:26:47 GMT -6
I don't remember the M3 having flip tabs for presets like the top one. In fact I'm pretty certain it didn't. That might be one of the more"modern" fully electronic models that didn't use topnewheels. It's been a long time, but the bottom one looks about right. No flip tabs, check. Does have rocker switches, check. The things to look for is the presence of the two bat handle or toggle switches mounted side by side beneath the keyboard on the vertical cabinet panel. Don't remember which side they were on. I'm thinking the left but could be wrong. If those switches are present it's a tonewheel organ. Next thing to look for is the presence of pecussion stops, probably actuated by rocker switches. One will switch percussion on (IIRC), one will select between two possible harmonics for the percussion. If it has tonewheels and percussion it's an M3. If it has tonewheels but no percussion it's an M2. Just the fact that an organ has drawbars does not neccessarily mean it has tonewheels, many later fully electronic models also had drawbars. The second image without the flip tabs says M3 on the label. It's also free and 20 minutes away. Hopefully grabbing it tomorrow. Congratulations! Hope it doesn't need much work - it looks clean! Really gotta run now....
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