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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 3, 2017 15:33:27 GMT -6
Well, I din't measure, but I'm aware that the 84 can pop easily, so I kept a significant distance and used a pop filter. I'd estimate 18" probably a little more.
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 3, 2017 15:37:30 GMT -6
It's 2017. Chinese output operates at 0 to 10% rejection rates, not 60-70% as you're suggesting. And that 10% rejected, you can sell off as 'b-stock' for half-price, and still turn a profit. You never need to take a hit when starting this high. It's. all. mark-up. "0-10% rejection rates" LOL - are we talking about fidget spinners here? Respectfully - You. Are. Mistaken. What are you currently producing in China, to be experiencing such high failure/rejection rates? Nothing? Well, how about a group-buy on GroupDIY, of 500 capsules from the exact factory that m-parts uses. Exactly the same capsules purchased for under $30/pc. Tested to sound identical to mparts capsules after they took delivery. Failed or rejected capsules out of 500 = Z E R O. Not one faulty capsule. So yes... LOL for thinking it's still 20-years ago.
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Post by wiz on Aug 3, 2017 18:15:59 GMT -6
Well, I din't measure, but I'm aware that the 84 can pop easily, so I kept a significant distance and used a pop filter. I'd estimate 18" probably a little more. It can pop easily, but I have gotten some great vocals with it... If you still have it there, try it closer but above or below the plane you are singing on. I use one a lot for backing vocal parts... Its a killer mic and with good positioning you should be able to get a really great vocal sound... its not a LDC of course... but its really really good cheers Wiz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 3, 2017 18:26:00 GMT -6
I agree, especially for backing vocals. I like having slightly different mics for some things. that way the same frequencies aren't being pushed on every track. The thing was, the comparison to the 0-13 was startling. I'll post files asap.
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Post by Coil Audio on Aug 5, 2017 20:44:33 GMT -6
"0-10% rejection rates" LOL - are we talking about fidget spinners here? Respectfully - You. Are. Mistaken. What are you currently producing in China, to be experiencing such high failure/rejection rates? Nothing? Well, how about a group-buy on GroupDIY, of 500 capsules from the exact factory that m-parts uses. Exactly the same capsules purchased for under $30/pc. Tested to sound identical to mparts capsules after they took delivery. Failed or rejected capsules out of 500 = Z E R O. Not one faulty capsule. So yes... LOL for thinking it's still 20-years ago. So because you successfully ordered 500 perfect 'identical to mparts' capsules then all of us peasants can expect those same returns on all overseas chinese mfg'ing? Maybe try 10x that amount and then maybe you'll have something to brag about, but one successful order isn't really a convincing argument- maybe for GroupDIY'ers but not someone looking to build quality products for daily use. We dont manufacture anything overseas as you correctly pointed out - but that doesnt mean we arent forced to use parts from there and trust me - those failure rates are much higher than '0-10%'. LOL In fact, for a simple brand name phase switch - failure rates so far are around 30% after 100 cycles, another switch we explored was almost half for every 100pcs after LESS than 100 cycles - these are considered 'excellent' switches too. Then there is New Sensor vacuum tubes - just ask Al from Acme about how many of a 100 lot survive a mere 24 hours of burn-in. Last he reported it varied from 20%-45% - no refunds for those that dont survive - nada. Why? Because its GARBAGE. Why do you think anyone that does well in this space performs a rigorous second round of QC once it arrives off the boat? I could keep going, especially when it comes to Transformers - but i'll spare you my 'old man' rant. So in closing - glad to hear your awesome GroupDIY capsule order ruled so hard, but mic capsules alone dont define chinese manufacturing standards and expectations - sorry. BTW - you seem to have a few rough critiques about the Roswell mics or MParts in particular, have you heard, used, or seen that mic in person? or the mpart mic described here? Or any for that matter? Just curious.....
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 5, 2017 21:57:55 GMT -6
"0-10% rejection rates" LOL - are we talking about fidget spinners here? Respectfully - You. Are. Mistaken. What are you currently producing in China, to be experiencing such high failure/rejection rates? Nothing? Well, how about a group-buy on GroupDIY, of 500 capsules from the exact factory that m-parts uses. Exactly the same capsules purchased for under $30/pc. Tested to sound identical to mparts capsules after they took delivery. Failed or rejected capsules out of 500 = Z E R O. Not one faulty capsule. So yes... LOL for thinking it's still 20-years ago. Erm, well, I have no direct experience withy M-Parts, but they appoear to me to be a pretty solid kit supplier to more or less entry-level DIY mic enthusiasts. And there's nothing wrong with that, I commend them for filling a real need. I think they're great! BUT, I would not use them as any benchmark for quality control of mic capsules. It might be interesting for somebody with the necessary equipment to actually conduct a random rest of their quality parameters, but really, why? They do a good job of supplying kits and parts to hobbyists. I have no idea if they have any connection to the Roswell people. All I know about Roswell is that they appear to be located only a few miles from where I live. HMMmmmm...
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Post by drbill on Aug 6, 2017 12:07:28 GMT -6
I used to feel like Coil. "Everything Chinese is crap or stolen". I think it used to be that way more than it is now. I don't feel that anymore. Things are changing in China at warp speed. If you're getting a 40% failure rate on Chinese parts, you need to find a different vendor. There IS quality available. Junk too. It's up to the purchaser to discern which is which - and be flexable to change vendors.
But for the original thought OP - there is a KMS 84 that Neumann designed specifically for vocals. Essentially a KM84 with pop filtering in front of the capsule. I always wondered about a screw on LDC capsule ala the Gefell UM series. Would be cool. I don't know why anyone has not done it. The threading is almost microscopic, but I'm sure it's doable with good machining.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 7, 2017 9:54:25 GMT -6
China is no worse or better than any other country when it comes to reject rate. I know people who have had almost zero reject rate on speakers and those with 25 percent. Both have very high standards, it's now about who in China you buy from! Just like everywhere else!
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Post by Coil Audio on Aug 7, 2017 19:51:46 GMT -6
I love how these conversations regularly spin into 'Im so old and experienced – yet I don't know anything about what's being discussed – but I'll still tell you how the world works'. Some free advice, next time you write a condescending reply, have a leg to stand on... For starters, what do microphone capsules, manufactured by specific Chinese factories, have to do with randomly purchased brand-name 'Made in China' switches or tubes, manufactured by unknown factories? How is that relevant to this discussion? And who's bragging... I never said I ran that GDIY order. In contrast, you're arrogantly slamming Chinese manufacturing as GARBAGE, which is an illogical position to hold in 2017. As an example, you've tested switches from a crappy brand, and instead of blaming the brand for making something low-quality and unreliable, you blame the Chinese who made them? If you paused for a second, do you not think the Chinese produced those switches to the exact crappy specifications provided by the brand? Why does it have to be the Chinese manufacturing that's at fault? Either way, if you were producing something there, and the factory was failing to meet your specs with 30-40% rejection rates, then we'd have something to discuss. Now with New Sensor tubes, you've completely lost me – they're not even Chinese... It's an American corporation selling Russian tubes. But just to be clear, 1) ACME buys Russian crap from a US corporation, 2) ACME complains they don't meet their specifications or pass testing, and then 3) you blame the Chinese?! That's an American company swindling ACME with reject tubes, and it's an American providing poor after-sales service with no refunds. Let's be honest though, if you're cheap enough to be buying actual Chinese made tubes, don't then complain they're crap. There's no excuse for using them in a professional grade product. (one of the worst microphones I've heard, is the mparts 87 kit. I've already posted gut pics of the $900 Delphos. The internet is full of comments of how poor the mparts capsules are, by people who have actually heard better – including myself. I don't blame people thinking they're decent, if they haven't heard better. Doesn't mean $150/capsule is justified). Thanks for your comment jake and allow me to extend some 'free advice' to you. You yourself should try to stay consistent and on topic here if you're going to troll around. Where in this thread were you being specific at any time.? Answer: You were not. I merely responded to your very generalized blanket statement (of misinformation) with a few examples regarding the majority of overseas pro audio mfg in my (and MANY others) experience. Its called a conversation. Regarding your personal expertise and experience Jake, are you a manufacturer of anything pro audio - foreign or domestic? Anything besides snide off topic commentary and amateur pricing of someones products you have no knowledge of or experience using? Where is your skin in the game.? If the internet is your lone 'source' of knowledge- thats cool man <shruggy guy> but I'll pass on opening a factory overseas to have something to prove to you here - especially when it comes to arguing the current state of " who rolls the best chinese mic capsules?" with 'internet forum certified' experts such as yourself. LOL - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz So your GDIY counter argument (leg to stand on) is something you read about but didnt take part in then? In all your specifics and bravado you sure made it sound like you did- and thats cool, more refreshing internet conjecture to confuse the next guy. Maybe in the future, in threads about products, again, you have no real knowledge of or experience with, you should apply this easy to use preface "I read on the internet ..." to your comments about such things as to avoid the confusion of what is YOUR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE versus that of THE INTERNET. Im sure its all true though......<eyerolls across the universe> You also completely missed the point regarding New Sensor and im sorry i lost you so easily, but i do concur with you, there is no excuse for their use in a 'professional grade product'. However, the fact remains - they are used almost exclusively by every major mfg using vacuum tubes today. They kinda have to - We all know why - errr..... i hope(?) and we all know where they are actually made. (though that seems to be an awful assumption to make as of late - as exemplified here) To simply claim that they are an "American company selling 'Russian' tubes" is akin to saying "warm audio is an American company selling 'American' or 'German' gear" - its KIND OF the truth, but not the ENTIRE truth- actually pretty FAR from the entire truth. So lets not get lost in the simplified broad stroke descriptions supplied by the pages of Wikipedia. Anyway, i digress- My point is that the number crunchers count on these failure rates and instead of fixing the inherent production issue (as with nib tubes for example) those failures are averaged and accounted for and on and on it goes. Almost everyone does this in some way- its an expected/accepted practice. So sure- through those rose-colored lenses i'll concede and agree with you completely jake! - failure rates from overseas ARE '0-10%'!! (note: After a dozen additional rounds of QC and ignoring the contents of the rubbish bin).You are correct! Thank you for welcoming me to 2017! Just a heads up - this thread is specifically about the 'LDC with KM84 circuit' (i.e. T-12 mic kit) not the '87' kit you claimed to have heard ....also, comparing a 'kit' capsule to a mfg product capsule (thats tested and burned in domestically) is quite absurd - not that you seem to care - because its all barely worth a "maximum of $300" according to your ultra specific/part by part price analysis + labor breakdown amiright? LOL
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 7, 2017 20:38:24 GMT -6
I think you have irremediable reading comprehension issues, and I can't help with that... But if you'd like a breakdown of the Delphos, just ask for it.
Ask normally though. Because this "I'm a manufacturer, I'm special and I know shit, LOL LOL LOL" approach you have... it's pathetic.
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Post by Coil Audio on Aug 7, 2017 21:57:18 GMT -6
Dear jakeharris - i am eagerly awaiting your complete breakdown of the Delphos microphone and a copy of your resumé.
signed - Your Mom
(PS just go ahead and 'EDIT' the info into the post above jake, you master comment editor you!! - lets save some post space for people that want to learn about the subject of the thread as opposed to pouring over your fake news stories mkay thx)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 7, 2017 22:12:22 GMT -6
So, is a KM84 circuit in a LDC a good idea or not?
Last week I recorded some simple tracks to compare the KM84 to the new Soyuz 0-13.
To be clear, the KM84 is my holy grail SDC. I love it for acoustic guitars, especially tracks with lots of chord strumming. The 84 kept my tracks with two acoustics nicely in place and they sat in the track without effort and not too much processing. The Soyuz 0-13 was simply better. It had much more gain with greater definition and clarity. This was an unexpected surprise to me. The cool thing was if I slowly moved a HPF along on the Soyuz track, at some point it resembled the 84. So the Soyuz could sound like the 84 but the 84 can't sound like the Soyuz.
I'd be more curious about the circuit in that thing in a LDC.
Still, if it was at a good price, an LDC with the 84 circuit would probably be a cool mic.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2017 22:26:23 GMT -6
I love how these conversations regularly spin into 'Im so old and experienced – yet I don't know anything about what's being discussed – but I'll still tell you how the world works'. Some free advice, next time you write a condescending reply, have a leg to stand on... For starters, what do microphone capsules, manufactured by specific Chinese factories, have to do with randomly purchased brand-name 'Made in China' switches or tubes, manufactured by unknown factories? How is that relevant to this discussion? And who's bragging... I never said I ran that GDIY order. In contrast, you're arrogantly slamming Chinese manufacturing as GARBAGE, which is an illogical position to hold in 2017. As an example, you've tested switches from a crappy brand, and instead of blaming the brand for making something low-quality and unreliable, you blame the Chinese who made them? If you paused for a second, do you not think the Chinese produced those switches to the exact crappy specifications provided by the brand? Why does it have to be the Chinese manufacturing that's at fault? Either way, if you were producing something there, and the factory was failing to meet your specs with 30-40% rejection rates, then we'd have something to discuss. Now with New Sensor tubes, you've completely lost me – they're not even Chinese... It's an American corporation selling Russian tubes. But just to be clear, 1) ACME buys Russian crap from a US corporation, 2) ACME complains they don't meet their specifications or pass testing, and then 3) you blame the Chinese?! That's an American company swindling ACME with reject tubes, and it's an American providing poor after-sales service with no refunds. Let's be honest though, if you're cheap enough to be buying actual Chinese made tubes, don't then complain they're crap. There's no excuse for using them in a professional grade product. (one of the worst microphones I've heard, is the mparts 87 kit. I've already posted gut pics of the $900 Delphos. The internet is full of comments of how poor the mparts capsules are, by people who have actually heard better – including myself. I don't blame people thinking they're decent, if they haven't heard better. Doesn't mean $150/capsule is justified). Thanks for your comment jake and allow me to extend some 'free advice' to you. You yourself should try to stay consistent and on topic here if you're going to troll around. Where in this thread were you being specific at any time.? Answer: You were not. I merely responded to your very generalized blanket statement (of misinformation) with a few examples regarding the majority of overseas pro audio mfg in my (and MANY others) experience. Its called a conversation. Regarding your personal expertise and experience Jake, are you a manufacturer of anything pro audio - foreign or domestic? Anything besides snide off topic commentary and amateur pricing of someones products you have no knowledge of or experience using? Where is your skin in the game.? If the internet is your lone 'source' of knowledge- thats cool man <shruggy guy> but I'll pass on opening a factory overseas to have something to prove to you here - especially when it comes to arguing the current state of " who rolls the best chinese mic capsules?" with 'internet forum certified' experts such as yourself. LOL - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz So your GDIY counter argument (leg to stand on) is something you read about but didnt take part in then? In all your specifics and bravado you sure made it sound like you did- and thats cool, more refreshing internet conjecture to confuse the next guy. Maybe in the future, in threads about products, again, you have no real knowledge of or experience with, you should apply this easy to use preface "I read on the internet ..." to your comments about such things as to avoid the confusion of what is YOUR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE versus that of THE INTERNET. Im sure its all true though......<eyerolls across the universe> You also completely missed the point regarding New Sensor and im sorry i lost you so easily, but i do concur with you, there is no excuse for their use in a 'professional grade product'. However, the fact remains - they are used almost exclusively by every major mfg using vacuum tubes today. They kinda have to - We all know why - errr..... i hope(?) and we all know where they are actually made. (though that seems to be an awful assumption to make as of late - as exemplified here) To simply claim that they are an "American company selling 'Russian' tubes" is akin to saying "warm audio is an American company selling 'American' or 'German' gear" - its KIND OF the truth, but not the ENTIRE truth- actually pretty FAR from the entire truth. So lets not get lost in the simplified broad stroke descriptions supplied by the pages of Wikipedia. Anyway, i digress- My point is that the number crunchers count on these failure rates and instead of fixing the inherent production issue (as with nib tubes for example) those failures are averaged and accounted for and on and on it goes. Almost everyone does this in some way- its an expected/accepted practice. So sure- through those rose-colored lenses i'll concede and agree with you completely jake! - failure rates from overseas ARE '0-10%'!! (note: After a dozen additional rounds of QC and ignoring the contents of the rubbish bin).You are correct! Thank you for welcoming me to 2017! Just a heads up - this thread is specifically about the 'LDC with KM84 circuit' (i.e. T-12 mic kit) not the '87' kit you claimed to have heard ....also, comparing a 'kit' capsule to a mfg product capsule (thats tested and burned in domestically) is quite absurd - not that you seem to care - because its all barely worth a "maximum of $300" according to your ultra specific/part by part price analysis + labor breakdown amiright? LOL Just a quick aside to (perhaps) illustrate a point - back when I was wortking as a full time guitar amp tech (in the '70s and mid '80s) our failure rate on Fender branded RCA 7025/12AX7 tubes purchased in 100 unit flats ran around 20%-30% depending on the lot. That's brand new USA made RCA tubes. So pardon me if I'm just slightly dubious about the claims of "less than 10% rejection rate" for certain types of parts - tubes, mic capsules, stuff like that. It certainly seems um, optimistic to me.
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Post by Coil Audio on Aug 7, 2017 23:20:22 GMT -6
Actually - its a solid comparison you made johneppstein. These are considered 'dark arts' components that take actual experience, knowledge and attention to detail to manufacture yet seem to evade modern overseas production and fall very short. But according to an expert over on forum x that builds Drip kits - rejection rates are zero to 10%.
Still eagerly waiting on that breakdown jake....take all the time you need.
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Post by Coil Audio on Aug 8, 2017 0:20:47 GMT -6
I used to feel like Coil. "Everything Chinese is crap or stolen". I think it used to be that way more than it is now. I don't feel that anymore. Things are changing in China at warp speed. If you're getting a 40% failure rate on Chinese parts, you need to find a different vendor. There IS quality available. Junk too. It's up to the purchaser to discern which is which - and be flexable to change vendors. But for the original thought OP - there is a KMS 84 that Neumann designed specifically for vocals. Essentially a KM84 with pop filtering in front of the capsule. I always wondered about a screw on LDC capsule ala the Gefell UM series. Would be cool. I don't know why anyone has not done it. The threading is almost microscopic, but I'm sure it's doable with good machining. Our official position is not "Everything Chinese is crap or stolen" by any means - but more "Proceed with caution and always do your due diligence". This isnt another 'man - china sucks' played out bro dude diatribe (Zzzz) so i apologize if it came off as such- but for what its worth, we employ the same scrutiny for domestic parts as well. We also use the same vendors everyone else uses (Digi-Key, Allied, Mouser etc) and luckily, most of them will take a return for faulty parts -but not always. The switches i referred to in a previous post are most def. the worst example we've experienced to date, but that's still not acceptable by any stretch of reason. Theres no real way to let others know specific parts are inferior in a timely or trustworthy fashion (no Amazon reviews to leave) - besides, by the time you could do something some guy that bought ONE working one will be posting on every forum possible and telling his internet pals how reliable and awesome they are in his new hairball kit. Thus perpetuating the myth - Things have changed a bit in China - i wouldn't say at warp speed, but i'd sort of agree its better than it was 10-15 yrs ago. That is mostly due to the fact that the companies that want to successfully build there (pro audio or otherwise) are forced to religiously babysit their operations, usually multiple times per year, to maintain any level of QC or risk suffering. Id personally rather save that 2k flight+ expenses per trip (a year of those adds up to a lot real quick) the headaches, and the hassle, and invest that tiny fortune into a better domestic mfg scenario if/when at all possible. Alas, that is not a popular MO these days. Just to be crystal clear - we've had GREAT experiences sourcing parts from overseas but its a toss up and requires some serious vigilance and oversight- (as i knock on wood looking at a tray of phase switches to be cycled) Your recommendations are great drbill and ericn but its all much easier said than done and never quite so black and white. Switching vendors up sometimes helps but isnt always a foolproof play- faulty parts can flood the system very quickly before they are caught (if they are at all) and then there are always the leftovers like landmines to avoid afterwards. The only thing we can do is put protocols in place that take up time and therefore money to minimize the risk as much as possible. Theres also the perpetuated myth that stringent QC alone automatically gives a product or part inherent 'integrity' or 'longevity' - its just not true. Especially when it comes to the 'dark arts' components i.e. vacuum tube, transformer, and mic capsule production techniques. Its great that a decent mic capsule can be made for cheap overseas and all in 2017 - but i doubt that will be the case for the other 2 anytime soon. That attention to detail is not required to make half-baked clone stuff that sells to ignorant forum groupies following the hype machine - There is still the test of time to consider for all this new awesome overseas stuff (which has always been the case)- it will be very interesting to see which pieces of praised overseas built gear of late(clones or otherwise) will withstand a decade of actual daily studio use (or hobby use for that matter). This will be a great thread to revisit in 2027 -
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Post by jampa on Aug 8, 2017 1:44:25 GMT -6
We can do better than personal insults here. It's not a good look for either of you. Your choice.
For me the capsule of the KM84 is such an integral part of the sound that I'm both totally interested and disinterested in an LDC with its circuit...
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 8, 2017 7:57:22 GMT -6
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Post by mdmitch2 on Aug 8, 2017 9:49:19 GMT -6
One thing to note... just because a Chinese capsule is functional doesn't mean it sounds good.... It's pretty easy to make a capsule that passes audio. So the 'failure rate' of a capsule is not black and white. And drilling brass on a CNC is not without it's variations, especially when a difference of 1-2 thousandths of an inch can drastically change the sound of the capsule. Not to mention other factors in the construction where a micron or two can make a huge difference... mylar, spacers, etc.
Side note, I've had several mparts capsules, and I was very happy with all of them. I ended up upgrading some of them to more expensive capsules that I preferred in the given application, but I still have two mics with mparts capsules that get used regularly, and sound great. I also did their mod kit on the studio projects C1, which drastically improved the sound of the mic. And I'm planning on doing the circuit kit for an MXL that's laying around....
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2017 9:55:02 GMT -6
We can do better than personal insults here. It's not a good look for either of you. Your choice. For me the capsule of the KM84 is such an integral part of the sound that I'm both totally interested and disinterested in an LDC with its circuit... True but you can still buy that Capsule from Senn/Neu not the rest!
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 8, 2017 11:48:27 GMT -6
Dear jakeharris - i am eagerly awaiting your complete breakdown of the Delphos microphone and a copy of your resumé. signed - Your Mom (PS just go ahead and 'EDIT' the info into the post above jake, you master comment editor you!! - lets save some post space for people that want to learn about the subject of the thread as opposed to pouring over your fake news stories mkay thx) My mom? Wow. Thanks for clarifying who you are, and good luck. ( johneppstein : microphone capsules aren't tubes – find a better comparison) I guess you missed the point - both mic capsules and tubes are electronic components that require a high degree of mechanical precision in the design, manufacture, and assembly of various elements into a finished, functioning, high precision whole. They also look a lot simpler than they actually are and require a combination of technological disciplines. Both also involve skills and technologies that have in certain cases been lost, or have been affected by modern regulations in adverse ways. As opposed to, oh, the production of resistors, capacitors, semiconductors, etc, which don't require the same sort of technologies and physical skills to produce.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 8, 2017 11:58:13 GMT -6
One thing to note... just because a Chinese capsule is functional doesn't mean it sounds good.... It's pretty easy to make a capsule that passes audio. So the 'failure rate' of a capsule is not black and white. And drilling brass on a CNC is not without it's variations, especially when a difference of 1-2 thousandths of an inch can drastically change the sound of the capsule. Not to mention other factors in the construction where a micron or two can make a huge difference... mylar, spacers, etc. Which is where the sale of b-stock comes in. You never lose anything on working capsules not meeting your spec: Would you not consider buying a $40-$75 capsule, from a retailer selling the same product at $150, if they told you it works, but just doesn't sound as good? The worst case is DOA capsules, but good factories will step-up and replace those for free. Some would love to argue about this, but it's a current reality, even in China... Even the Chinese care about customer service and repeat business, in many cases more so than western vendors. No, the worst case is the ones that "function" but don't come close enough to spec to make a consistent microphone. Those are the ones that make their way onto the market but shouldn't - a reputable company would send them to the recycler. DOA capsules aren't nearly the problem, since they're clear rejects that don't work and are a lot less likely to be sold to suckers. And to answer your question - no, I wouldn't consider buying a mic capsule that sounds wrong. Why would I want bad sounding microphones in my studio? Why would you?
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 8, 2017 12:07:53 GMT -6
And to answer your question - no, I wouldn't consider buying a mic capsule that sounds wrong. Why would I want bad sounding microphones in my studio? Why would you? Some people don't have the money to spend any more than $60-$70 on a capsule. Imperfect B-stock capsules, or a punt on Aliexpress, are both viable options for them. (and with some circuit voodoo, you can make a subpar capsule sound okay)
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 8, 2017 12:13:58 GMT -6
Actually - its a solid comparison you made johneppstein. These are considered 'dark arts' components that take actual experience, knowledge and attention to detail to manufacture yet seem to evade modern overseas production and fall very short. But according to an expert over on forum x that builds Drip kits - rejection rates are zero to 10%. Still eagerly waiting on that breakdown jake....take all the time you need. Capsules are a dark art component, made by CNC machines in China by the hundreds of thousands every month, for the last 50-years... You simply don't know what you're talking about. You failed to ask normally, but here's your breakdown attached in PDF to not clog up the thread. But... this entire post is pointless, because you have no idea what any of this costs... You're stuck in some imaginary world where it's okay to pay $900 for the Delphos, and Chinese microphone capsules are a dark art where 70% of them fail or are rejected... Funnily enough, those other companies listed in the breakdown seem to be doing just fine selling with 50% of Roswell's margin. The reality is that a transformerless FET mic like the Delphos, with a Chinese capsule, is not worth more than $300 in the current market. If that price is impossible to achieve, then it's not a viable product. By no means is it a premium or boutique product, just because you're assembling a PCB in the US. And by no means should clients be paying for your inefficiencies as a manufacturer. More importantly, the sound of that capsule, it doesn't change because you're soldering a wire in California! Now who am I? I could be a consumer, a manufacturer, or even a factory owner. Difference between me and you, I don't talk about things I know nothing about (and I don't go around telling people Elektro-Harmonix tubes are Made in China) But please, by all means, take my breakdown apart. I'm looking forward to actual quotes from China to back your claims up, otherwise, once again, you don't have a leg to stand on. Capsule quote also attached. So you believe that CNC machines knocking things out by the thousands can match the quality of skilled machinists working to an exacting spec? Man, my late uncle - who was a master machinist and shop foreman for Western Electric would have a few things to teach you.... There's a reason that the only companies that come close to the quality of mics produced in the "golden age" manufacture their capsules by hand. You should think about it. Anbd it's, er, "interesting" that you should be telling Coil Audio, who is in the business of manufacturing audio devices, that "But... this entire post is pointless, because you have no idea what any of this costs... You're stuck in some imaginary world... " I would suggest that you rethink that. Really. And please enlighten us - what audio company do YOU operate? Let's put things on a fair footing here. Me, I'm just a service tech as far as this conversation is concerned.
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Post by winetree on Aug 8, 2017 12:17:49 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 8, 2017 12:21:44 GMT -6
And to answer your question - no, I wouldn't consider buying a mic capsule that sounds wrong. Why would I want bad sounding microphones in my studio? Why would you? Some people don't have the money to spend any more than $60-$70 on a capsule. Imperfect B-stock capsules, or a punt on Aliexpress, are both viable options for them. (and with some circuit voodoo, you can make a subpar capsule sound okay) No. They should save their money and buy something decent. And no, they can't make something subpar onto something decent. I'm not saying it's impossible, mind you, I'm just saying that if they have the investment to put into the required test equipment needed to anaylze the defective capsule they are not going to want to waste their time fooling around with defective parts, they'll just buy something that works right and save a lot of time (and probably money, in the long run.) And you don't make great recordings using capsules that just sound "okay". (Not unless you've got super talent in front of the mic. But super talent probably isn't going to want to use a studio with home made mics that just sound "okay", unless maybe they're members of your immediate family.)
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