|
|
Post by M57 on Dec 28, 2018 9:51:11 GMT -6
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking that when it comes to Bandcamp and similar services where folks can purchase tracks for downloading, they can stream with no loudness penalty per se. Up to now I've only been posting my music on Soundcloud, but I'm looking at releasing an 'album' (whatever that means) at sometime in the future so apparently I need to consider these penalties. EmRR posted this link in another thread: www.loudnesspenalty.com/So I popped in a few of my mixes ..fully expecting there to be penalties, and in fact there were. For example a tune that measures in at -12.0 dbfs on Logic's LUFS plug-in has an estimated -2.0 penalty for iTunes, which makes sense if iTunes sets -14.0 as the threshold, but the penalties for other services are all over the map, with outliers Youtube (-0.7) and Spotify (-2.2). In fact pretty much no matter what I pop in Youtube and Spotify are always 1.5 db apart. For pros who have to follow rules for their clients this is a non-issue, but if you're someone like me (with no clients but myself) creating a master for more or less universal distribution, how do you go about dealing with these conflicting rules? For instance, let's say that I like the sound of that -12.0 dbfs mix. Should I leave it that way and accept the penalties? When folks purchase to download, they get the original unpenalized file, which is what I want them to get. On the other hand, let's say that I expect the music to be streamed most of the time. Shouldn't I still leave it at -12.0? The listener can turn it up and the "penalty" becomes a resolution or noise floor penalty, right? Or should I conform to the demands of the most conservative of these players? In other words, how concerned should I be about these penalties? |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 28, 2018 10:13:35 GMT -6
I think they are a thing to be aware of, but not slave to. Part of awareness is knowing what a crazy-hot mix won’t bring to the table, even though it may be a sonic effect you like (tiny dynamic range). On the other end note there’s a minimum broadcast recommendation also, like -22 or -23 LUFS.
The mastering guy I usually use tells me he has lots of jobs that are singles going to streaming, and clients will have him generate masters for specific streaming services at target levels. No physical product as part of process.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 10:22:14 GMT -6
Don't think about "Loudness Penalties", just make sure it sounds good. If you will be offering it up on Bandcamp, the customer will be able to download (or stream) whatever hi-res source you upload. Just make sure you are happy with it after mastering.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Dec 28, 2018 12:53:13 GMT -6
I'd shoot for -14 anyways. Seems to be the best for all around useage.
|
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Jan 31, 2019 5:57:36 GMT -6
I read somewhere that incurring penalties might even be preferable. I can't remember the exact context, but I think it had something to do with getting max value out of a single mix. So for instance, at -14 LUFS there are some sites that won't penalize you at all because you haven't hit their ceiling. E.g. -14 leaves unused headroom on youtube. (or is that not true because they normalize?) I ended up at about -13 LUFS on my most recent mix (and I don't even use youtube) and it felt good. I have to say that I'm becoming more and more appreciative of not feeling obligated to crush things as much.
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jan 31, 2019 7:21:32 GMT -6
I recall there are a few that don't turn anything up, only down. Others adjust both directions. I think you want to be at least a hair hot, if it's a concern.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 4, 2019 22:11:45 GMT -6
I'm dealing with some of this right now. Listen to this, then listen to any other favorite video. The level is louder, yet clean as a whistle. I'd like to know how it's done. Certainly done on a board with great producer. Is that all it is? Can someone tell me what level this is?
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 14, 2019 10:01:48 GMT -6
I'm dealing with some of this right now. Listen to this, then listen to any other favorite video. The level is louder, yet clean as a whistle. I'd like to know how it's done. Certainly done on a board with great producer. Is that all it is? Can someone tell me what level this is? Not sure what you're asking here.. Are you saying that you think this video is louder than others? I can say that it's about as loud as any modern recording I've heard recently.. But the one thing that allows these type of things to be loud is the lack of transients, and the lack of extreme highs and lows as well as the lack of fast attacks on any instrument. The clarity comes from cleared out space around each instrument and some strategic EQ boosts. There's an overall roundness to the track, so it's certainly been compressed with something slow like an SSL G. Most folks mistake clarity as wide bandwidths and extreme high frequencies which only add unnecessary transients that eat up headroom. This sounds like it's been low-passed on most of the instruments. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 14, 2019 10:24:53 GMT -6
Yeah, the mind often does a better job of filling in missing high and low frequencies than they actually do themselves when present.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 14, 2019 12:37:41 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your insights into how this was done. I stopped by Southern Ground studios a couple of weeks ago for a few minutes. Brandon, the head engineer mentioned this track was done by Vance Powell. Now I'm not familiar with every great producer currently working, but man, that guy surely knows what he's doing.
My video is almost finished, just a few more edits to go. I sent a new version of my track to swap for the older one because it's just a touch cleaner. When I compare levels of that track to my benchmark recording, ( Lyle Lovett's "Road to Ensenada" for overall tone, Ryan Adam's "Two" for levels", I'm close enough for comfort. Hopefully that will translate well when we post it on youtube. I just don't want people too have to reach for a volume knob because my track is too low.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 14, 2019 12:40:13 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your insights into how this was done. I stopped by Southern Ground studios a couple of weeks ago for a few minutes. Brandon, the head engineer mentioned this track was done by Vance Powell. Now I'm not familiar with every great producer current working, but man, that guy surely knows what he's doing. Oh so it was likely done on the API or the 4K? Kinda explains the texture of the mix! |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 14, 2019 12:42:36 GMT -6
Not sure it was done at Southern ground where they have the API and the Neve. The reason it came up is they were mixing a new track by the Peter Bradley Adams, and I commented on how good the track I posted sounded on youtube.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 14, 2019 12:55:14 GMT -6
Not sure it was done at Southern ground where they have the API and the Neve. The reason it came up is they were mixing a new track by the Peter Bradley Adams, and I commented on how good the track I posted sounded on youtube. I see. The track is a little mid forward and rounded, like an API.. But one could say that it's heavily filtered and has some bounce to it as well, which is a 4K hallmark. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 14, 2019 17:38:23 GMT -6
They were mixing on the 4k, not that it means the other track was done that way..
|
|
