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Sonarworks
Apr 22, 2019 17:27:33 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 22, 2019 17:27:33 GMT -6
Still not totally sure I understand what the Monitor model has to do with it...it is basically taking a measurement of whatever monitor in your environment.
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Sonarworks
Apr 22, 2019 17:30:56 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 22, 2019 17:30:56 GMT -6
I think they have profiled the monitor to know how far off linear it actually is and factor that in with your room analysis, so the sound coming out of your monitors, is flat minus your monitors’ and room’s nonlinearities ?
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Post by NoTomorrow on Apr 22, 2019 17:37:53 GMT -6
The monitor models listed in Sonarworks are if you want to match your monitors (after you've measured them with the mic) to the frequency response curves of say NS-10's.... or Focals.
This you can do 'instead' of it correcting your monitors to be flat.
They have a number of monitor models that they've averaged just like they do with the headphone profiles. This is how it is in Sonarworks 3, anyway.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 22, 2019 17:47:51 GMT -6
Ohhh. They actually removed the simulations in 4 apparently.
It’s sooo hard to judge whether this is a net positive or a net negative. I also hear a lot of what I’d call weird phasey stuff too. But is it weird phasey stuff or am I finally hearing things correctly? I just kind of feel like the carpets been pulled out from under me. What I’d really like to do it go to the store and buy “100hz room dip correctors.” Another thing that’s kind of interesting is that Ozone Tonal Balance has been completely leading me the right direction.
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Sonarworks
Apr 22, 2019 18:02:21 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 22, 2019 18:02:21 GMT -6
NoTomorrow, no offense but not certain that correct ? If i use say focal shape 6.5 and SW has a setting for them and if I bought SW for its linearity modelling, why would I want my monitors to sound like Yamaha ‘s , as opposed to the most linear 6.5’s in my room ? I am talking about 4 though
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Post by NoTomorrow on Apr 22, 2019 18:40:01 GMT -6
No offense taken bro. Yes that's what it did in Sonarworks 3.
Sonarworks is basically a high fidelity match EQ - so once you accurately measure your own monitors/room you can match it to anything. Of course, most people will want to match it to a perfectly flat frequency response, but if you were ever wondering 'hey what the hell is all this talk about NS10's and what would my mix sound like on them' then you could open up Sonarworks, load your measured profile and simulate NS10's. It was under the 'Simulate' tab in version 3.
You can see what I'm talking about in this video around the 8:00 mark:
So yea I will shut up because I need to see what has changed in version 4, apparently a few things.
JohnKenn - make sure you have SW set to it's highest latency, which makes it linear phase or I imagine you could get some phasing.
I will say that I love SW because my room/monitors blow. The better your room is the less SW is needed.
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Sonarworks
Apr 22, 2019 18:45:43 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Apr 22, 2019 18:45:43 GMT -6
I’m guessing this works just like tuning room with EQ? If yes, then it will surely reveal a ton! However, a lot of the time when you flatten out a room/speaker combo it sounds very clinical, like how does one ever “feel” when something is right? That’s my experience including tons of live situations where, even when they spend hundreds of thousand$, you hear a reference and it’s like “sounds fantastic.. but it *could* probably be a little better...” And the crew I was on understood this, we’d always- always- always find the 31bands.. take note of the house engineer’s hard work, tell them thanks so much for flattening out the PA.. then quietly adjust the 31bands to make the reference sound incredible. At the end of the night put it back. In old school studios I think guys tuned their room the same way? At least the first place I recorded, he told me he tuned to room to Steely Dan. He explained it was a whole process.. light some incense, play music for a few hours, dim the lights, tweak it. I’ve always wondered if this would help me or hurt me. The thing is, if the reference frequencies are exactly where our ear wants it to be, would that be ok? Or are we just better off not feeling for the right spot and just being analytical?
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 22, 2019 19:31:09 GMT -6
Be nice if it allowed you to just correct the low end. I’m pretty sure you can with the latest version. Look for the “advanced” section, there are limits there. No - only allows you to change the boost given to high frequencies to "Neutral, Extended or Aggressive."
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 13:51:08 GMT -6
Hmm. I’m not totally sure I like what this is doing to the top end. Certainly makes me aware of the 100hz issue...which I can compensate for.
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 23, 2019 16:41:34 GMT -6
I think this is the calibration file for the Behringer mike : Dude, that's a quote for vinyl pressing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 18:21:41 GMT -6
I think this is the calibration file for the Behringer mike : Dude, that's a quote for vinyl pressing. I didn’t use that one lol. But I’m waiting to get the mic that spindrift so generously sent my way. Right now, I don’t think I would buy the software and use it with the profile I currently have. Seems to introduce as many issues as it supposedly fixes. And the admittedly few mixes I’ve done so far are freaking lifeless.
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Post by wiz on Apr 23, 2019 18:24:25 GMT -6
Dude, that's a quote for vinyl pressing. I didn’t use that one lol. But I’m waiting to get the mic that spindrift so generously sent my way. Right now, I don’t think I would buy the software and use it with the profile I currently have. Seems to introduce as many issues as it supposedly fixes. And the admittedly few mixes I’ve done so far are freaking lifeless. JohnkennI wouldnt get too caught up in all this, with your existing room. If you have good mixes coming out of what you have already, stick with it.... Going the professional acoustician route, is only worth it if you are going to pony up the dough and do what he suggests, and even then its a crap shoot. I use IK Multimedias ARC 2, and have done for years. I have heavily treated well laid out room, and it is the icing on the cake. Do the best you can with that A frame room bud, give it a shot with the calibrated mic and see.... but dont spend any more money... save that for gear 8) cheers Wiz
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Sonarworks
Apr 23, 2019 18:33:01 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 23, 2019 18:33:01 GMT -6
I’ll check my e filing system and get to ya Indie
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Sonarworks
Apr 23, 2019 19:21:44 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 19:21:44 GMT -6
I didn’t use that one lol. But I’m waiting to get the mic that spindrift so generously sent my way. Right now, I don’t think I would buy the software and use it with the profile I currently have. Seems to introduce as many issues as it supposedly fixes. And the admittedly few mixes I’ve done so far are freaking lifeless. JohnkennI wouldnt get too caught up in all this, with your existing room. If you have good mixes coming out of what you have already, stick with it.... Going the professional acoustician route, is only worth it if you are going to pony up the dough and do what he suggests, and even then its a crap shoot. I use IK Multimedias ARC 2, and have done for years. I have heavily treated well laid out room, and it is the icing on the cake. Do the best you can with that A frame room bud, give it a shot with the calibrated mic and see.... but dont spend any more money... save that for gear 8) cheers Wiz Man you’re probably exactly right. I freaked out a little because I had a mix that a co-writer kept asking for changes on. And she has no discernible mix or ear talent. Kind’ve let it get to me and then psychosomatically everything started sounding terrible to me. Things that I thought sounded good two days before lol. I definitely think there’s a problem with 100hz in my room, but hey - now I know. I just don’t know if I want to deal with re-learning (and why?) my room. I was also hearing weird phasing things with kick samples that had never happened before...and I don’t think it was that I was just now hearing it. It never translated badly before. Anyway...that’s kind of where I am. I’m not sure I can spend $1000 on acoustic consulting either. Then I’d still have to buy the stuff.
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Sonarworks
Apr 23, 2019 19:22:07 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 19:22:07 GMT -6
Btw - I haven’t gotten a quote so I don’t know how much it would be.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 23, 2019 19:26:05 GMT -6
How close to the front wall are your monitors?
Try moving the monitors around and take a few measurements with the software. Try right up against the front wall.
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Sonarworks
Apr 23, 2019 19:30:55 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 19:30:55 GMT -6
How close to the front wall are your monitors? Try moving the monitors around and take a few measurements with the software. Try right up against the front wall. Probably 3 ish feet.
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 24, 2019 8:13:29 GMT -6
How close to the front wall are your monitors? Try moving the monitors around and take a few measurements with the software. Try right up against the front wall. Probably 3 ish feet. Do some searches on speaker boundary interference and try getting close to the back wall. It can make an enormous difference.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2019 16:17:58 GMT -6
OK - got the mic - Thanks, spindrift! The profile curve is not much different at all. It's a little bit more of an exaggerated version of what the ECM8000 has measured. I do think the whole system sounds better with this measurement...and I think I've decided to go ahead and purchase. I realize I could just compensate now that I know the big problem at 100Hz, but this will be a nice check and balance for mix checks along with the Ozone Tonal balance. I noticed when listening with correction on, and mixing with it, It's pretty much lined up with my different tonal balance profiles. I will probably start mixing without and pull it in for checks.
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Sonarworks
Apr 25, 2019 17:04:57 GMT -6
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 25, 2019 17:04:57 GMT -6
OK - got the mic - Thanks, spindrift! The profile curve is not much different at all. It's a little bit more of an exaggerated version of what the ECM8000 has measured. I do think the whole system sounds better with this measurement...and I think I've decided to go ahead and purchase. I realize I could just compensate now that I know the big problem at 100Hz, but this will be a nice check and balance for mix checks along with the Ozone Tonal balance. I noticed when listening with correction on, and mixing with it, It's pretty much lined up with my different tonal balance profiles. I will probably start mixing without and pull it in for checks. Is the mic a ‘must purchase’ or can I get by with the ECM8000 until I can find one on sale or something? Have you played with the mix knob any? I was messing a bit last night and almost prefer a 50/50 blend. I’ve got a huge hole at 100 and a low-mid buildup in my room.
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Sonarworks
Apr 25, 2019 18:23:42 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2019 18:23:42 GMT -6
OK - got the mic - Thanks, spindrift! The profile curve is not much different at all. It's a little bit more of an exaggerated version of what the ECM8000 has measured. I do think the whole system sounds better with this measurement...and I think I've decided to go ahead and purchase. I realize I could just compensate now that I know the big problem at 100Hz, but this will be a nice check and balance for mix checks along with the Ozone Tonal balance. I noticed when listening with correction on, and mixing with it, It's pretty much lined up with my different tonal balance profiles. I will probably start mixing without and pull it in for checks. Is the mic a ‘must purchase’ or can I get by with the ECM8000 until I can find one on sale or something? Have you played with the mix knob any? I was messing a bit last night and almost prefer a 50/50 blend. I’ve got a huge hole at 100 and a low-mid buildup in my room. It could totally be confirmation bias...and I think it probably is, but, today after using this profile, I didn’t think I had the phasing in the low end and distortion when taking off the safe headroom option. While the graph is only slightly different, it just seems like I got along with it today. So, my suggestion would be to just go ahead and get the mic.
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Sonarworks
Apr 25, 2019 18:24:08 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2019 18:24:08 GMT -6
But can you get by? Sure.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Apr 25, 2019 19:13:15 GMT -6
OK - got the mic - Thanks, spindrift ! The profile curve is not much different at all. It's a little bit more of an exaggerated version of what the ECM8000 has measured. I do think the whole system sounds better with this measurement...and I think I've decided to go ahead and purchase. I realize I could just compensate now that I know the big problem at 100Hz, but this will be a nice check and balance for mix checks along with the Ozone Tonal balance. I noticed when listening with correction on, and mixing with it, It's pretty much lined up with my different tonal balance profiles. I will probably start mixing without and pull it in for checks. Is the mic a ‘must purchase’ or can I get by with the ECM8000 until I can find one on sale or something? Have you played with the mix knob any? I was messing a bit last night and almost prefer a 50/50 blend. I’ve got a huge hole at 100 and a low-mid buildup in my room. The mic is not a must purchase. I started with an ECM8000, and bought the calibrated mic a few years later when it was on sale. I did not experienced much of a change with the new measurements.
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 25, 2019 19:25:22 GMT -6
I'll say that using Sonarworks feels like taking a blanket off my monitors. Even more so with the headphone calibration (Focal Listen Pro's). I never considered those to be muddy or muffled, but with the calibration file, it's a new level of openness and clarity.
But is it the truth? Not sure yet.
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Sonarworks
Apr 25, 2019 20:50:22 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2019 20:50:22 GMT -6
I'll say that using Sonarworks feels like taking a blanket off my monitors. Even more so with the headphone calibration (Focal Listen Pro's). I never considered those to be muddy or muffled, but with the calibration file, it's a new level of openness and clarity. But is it the truth? Not sure yet. My experience too
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