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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 16, 2017 10:41:30 GMT -6
Johnkenn I'm glad I'm not the only one who could hear the rolled off top end compared to the SvartBox and difference in stereo image too. I don't know, when i gave the SvartBox to Martin John Butler, I immediately missed that crispy top end. the Symphony just sounds good. But i'm pretty sure it is lying when it comes to hearing reverbs and things with tails. I still have a really hard time hearing reverb amounts on the symphony. maybe my ears just suck for that type of thing tho and it's something I'll never hear well lol I certainly don't want there to be some post on some other board saying, "RGO says the Symphony is rolled off." I'm sure the Apogee people could show us graphs that show that it's not "rolled off" but there seems to be a consensus from people that it's what they're hearing. It's weird though - When I hear a mix of mine from the Svartbox on the Symphony, I don't really hear anything that needs to be changed...but it makes me think, "Oh, I could add that tiny bit of sheen on top that I thought was a little over the top..." My only question is which one of those is right...and it's not like you can't reference great mixes on either box to judge how the top end is handled. But you're right, the Symphony sounds damn amazing to listen to.
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Post by Quint on Nov 16, 2017 13:53:52 GMT -6
I feel the same way about the 2192. It's got a slight roll off but that's one of the reasons I like it.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 16, 2017 16:48:54 GMT -6
They are all just tools: find one you like: learn it and mix into it: you’ll do fine.
I personally found with the Symphony MkII, a sound that works for me in terms of making sonic decisions that I feel translate well for others: it wasn’t so much about just my preference, if that makes sense to you guys ?
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Post by drsax on Nov 18, 2017 10:12:31 GMT -6
Johnkenn I'm glad I'm not the only one who could hear the rolled off top end compared to the SvartBox and difference in stereo image too. I don't know, when i gave the SvartBox to Martin John Butler, I immediately missed that crispy top end. the Symphony just sounds good. But i'm pretty sure it is lying when it comes to hearing reverbs and things with tails. I still have a really hard time hearing reverb amounts on the symphony. maybe my ears just suck for that type of thing tho and it's something I'll never hear well lol I certainly don't want there to be some post on some other board saying, "RGO says the Symphony is rolled off." I'm sure the Apogee people could show us graphs that show that it's not "rolled off" but there seems to be a consensus from people that it's what they're hearing. It's weird though - When I hear a mix of mine from the Svartbox on the Symphony, I don't really hear anything that needs to be changed...but it makes me think, "Oh, I could add that tiny bit of sheen on top that I thought was a little over the top..." My only question is which one of those is right...and it's not like you can't reference great mixes on either box to judge how the top end is handled. But you're right, the Symphony sounds damn amazing to listen to. this is why I favor 2 channels of clean, clear, honest DA for listening. And I think colored or “rolled off” can work great for tracking where you want to cure or avoid digititus from the source while Recording. I usually use Burl to record, and my ADDA loop for Master buss and for monitoring is Lynx Hilo. Best of both worlds
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Post by mjheck on Nov 18, 2017 16:42:02 GMT -6
I landed in a place similar to Dr. Sax.
I've had pieces that were just a pleasure to listen to, but found they were a little too flattering. The same does not apply for AD - like Quint, I like what the 2192 does. I can track without it, but see no reason to.
I've ended up with tracking and mix down going through the 2192, but I don't monitor through it (though man, did it sound lovely).
I monitor through my humble BLA Apollo. Not flattering - just flat. Or at least, flat enough.
MJH
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 18, 2017 20:00:44 GMT -6
None of these are bad at all...we are lucky to live in the age we do!
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Post by sozocaps on Nov 19, 2017 12:22:12 GMT -6
One last thought.... One really needs to compare a live unconverted analog feed back to back with the A/D D/A converted mix to really tell how much a particular converter colors / looses / distorts the original signal...
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 19, 2017 14:03:44 GMT -6
so, comparing tape color with AD-converted tape color? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
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Post by popmann on Nov 19, 2017 15:11:18 GMT -6
No--the analog signal. Via analog mixer. The only particularly valid reference is the analog signal it's converting. Mixer channel....compared to ADA loop of the same. At the least, hearing the analog take, then playback.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 19, 2017 16:23:26 GMT -6
That's funny, I have always imagined Apogee converters to have a sheen on the top end. HOWEVER, I have never owned one, so that may be complete BS. I think the DA is the most important. Johnkenn I think you have said that before too. But I guess it will be interesting to see how the AD side performs as well..
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 19, 2017 17:23:46 GMT -6
I think I had said that after thinking AD was the most important...that I had changed my position...if you can’t hear it, you can’t fix it. Anyway, truth is they’re both equally important.
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Post by adamjbrass on Nov 20, 2017 13:23:15 GMT -6
That's funny, I have always imagined Apogee converters to have a sheen on the top end. HOWEVER, I have never owned one, so that may be complete BS. I think the DA is the most important. Johnkenn I think you have said that before too. But I guess it will be interesting to see how the AD side performs as well.. depends which unit in question! My symphony mk1 AD has a softer top end for sure. More creamy. Compared to other converters it is less reveling for sure. The Mk2 AD has been improved from the mk1, but to my ears it sounds cleaner and more "sparkly", up top. So, yea, it seems less "subdued" up top now. Some of the reasons why I still love my mk1, its more "dim" up there. When you switch the sample rate higher [on my mk1] it does get much more "glassy" sounding. Sounds great at 44.1 though.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 20, 2017 14:59:07 GMT -6
No--the analog signal. Via analog mixer. The only particularly valid reference is the analog signal it's converting. Mixer channel....compared to ADA loop of the same. At the least, hearing the analog take, then playback. How are you going to listen to an analog mix or take unless you recorded it onto an analog medium like a tape machine, thus omitting the ADA altogether?
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Post by popmann on Nov 20, 2017 16:00:17 GMT -6
What comes out of a mic preamp(and EQ and compressor)? Analog signal. You mult it....send it to your analog mixer&ADC....bring the return of the ADC back to a second channel. Assuming you're not using the mixer's preamps to begin with--then there's no mult needed.
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Post by sozocaps on Nov 20, 2017 16:36:31 GMT -6
Or listen in the control room to the the mic up band in the session warming up etc... This is what Apogee did when they first released the Symphony 1 to show how true it is.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2017 12:05:12 GMT -6
So after a week of mixing, I'm really happy with this thing. Thanks, to Kcat and Ragan for their insights. Clients have been really, really happy with the mixes...not sure if they''d be just as happy as if they were done on the Apollo/SB, but it all seems to be translating really well. For me, I think the fact that the DA seems to be more "satisfying" so to speak. I can achieve that "thump" from the kick and it's really apparent and easy to get to. Fatigue seems to be a little less...and I do think the separation of instruments is more apparent...so, I guess that would be "depth of field." The recording I've done with the AD has been pretty stellar...
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 21, 2017 13:10:44 GMT -6
How do you like the touch-screen on the front and how is the fan noise?
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2017 13:32:46 GMT -6
I haven't heard the fan once...but I'm only using 4 channels of DA and 2 of AD.
I love the touch screen. Super easy to use - much better than the TS on the Hilo.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 21, 2017 14:13:46 GMT -6
I haven't heard the fan once...but I'm only using 4 channels of DA and 2 of AD. I love the touch screen. Super easy to use - much better than the TS on the Hilo. fan speed is related to the number of components on the module pcb, not the number of active channels. All channels are active regardless of if you're passing audio thru them or not.
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Post by wiz on Nov 21, 2017 14:43:53 GMT -6
I haven't heard the fan once...but I'm only using 4 channels of DA and 2 of AD. I love the touch screen. Super easy to use - much better than the TS on the Hilo. Hat do you use the touchscreen for? The reason I ask is for me it would end up in a rack not on my desktop...can you do from maestro what the touchscreen does? cheers Wiz
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2017 15:17:52 GMT -6
So after a week of mixing, I'm really happy with this thing. Thanks, to Kcat and Ragan for their insights. Clients have been really, really happy with the mixes...not sure if they''d be just as happy as if they were done on the Apollo/SB, but it all seems to be translating really well. For me, I think the fact that the DA seems to be more "satisfying" so to speak. I can achieve that "thump" from the kick and it's really apparent and easy to get to. Fatigue seems to be a little less...and I do think the separation of instruments is more apparent...so, I guess that would be "depth of field." The recording I've done with the AD has been pretty stellar... Have you tried the SB on it yet to see what the difference is? One thing that gets frequently overlooked since it's not really in view to the end user is that drivers and datastream handling can make a huge difference to external devices in terms of audio quality since they have to convert dis-similar audio streams into various formats. I'm wondering if the Symphony has better quality SPDIF I/O than the Apollo which might account for any audio differences between conversion.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2017 16:32:49 GMT -6
I haven't heard the fan once...but I'm only using 4 channels of DA and 2 of AD. I love the touch screen. Super easy to use - much better than the TS on the Hilo. Hat do you use the touchscreen for? The reason I ask is for me it would end up in a rack not on my desktop...can you do from maestro what the touchscreen does? cheers Wiz Yes. You can use Symphony Control for whatever the touchscreen can do.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2017 16:35:24 GMT -6
So after a week of mixing, I'm really happy with this thing. Thanks, to Kcat and Ragan for their insights. Clients have been really, really happy with the mixes...not sure if they''d be just as happy as if they were done on the Apollo/SB, but it all seems to be translating really well. For me, I think the fact that the DA seems to be more "satisfying" so to speak. I can achieve that "thump" from the kick and it's really apparent and easy to get to. Fatigue seems to be a little less...and I do think the separation of instruments is more apparent...so, I guess that would be "depth of field." The recording I've done with the AD has been pretty stellar... Have you tried the SB on it yet to see what the difference is? One thing that gets frequently overlooked since it's not really in view to the end user is that drivers and datastream handling can make a huge difference to external devices in terms of audio quality since they have to convert dis-similar audio streams into various formats. I'm wondering if the Symphony has better quality SPDIF I/O than the Apollo which might account for any audio differences between conversion. It’s actually using optical. All of this is highly subjective. I was getting fantastic mixes out of your box too...
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Post by svart on Nov 22, 2017 12:38:24 GMT -6
Have you tried the SB on it yet to see what the difference is? One thing that gets frequently overlooked since it's not really in view to the end user is that drivers and datastream handling can make a huge difference to external devices in terms of audio quality since they have to convert dis-similar audio streams into various formats. I'm wondering if the Symphony has better quality SPDIF I/O than the Apollo which might account for any audio differences between conversion. It’s actually using optical. All of this is highly subjective. I was getting fantastic mixes out of your box too... It's all good. i was just wondering if you could hear a difference between the Apollo and Symphony through my box meaning that drivers or other internal circuitry can affect SPDIF/AES streams.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2017 17:02:28 GMT -6
Wiz maestro is no more with Symphony MkII we have a new app Symphony control.
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