Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 3:43:51 GMT -6
In a mastering context, hurting, for sure. I've tried most of the digital emulations just to hear, and none of them have ever made it on to a master. Things always seem to sound better with them off.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2019 7:05:43 GMT -6
I use the UAD Amp ATR-102 on my 2 bus, permanently. It's kind of pre-mastering, giving me bigger and smoother tones. But it doesn't actually sound like tape. Strangely enough UAD's cheaper "Tape" plug-in does. It's the only one that ever fooled my ears. Thing is, I don't love the tape emulations on individual tracks, so I just use it occasionally.
|
|
|
Post by stratboy on May 21, 2019 7:09:05 GMT -6
I would not have thought of this use for the UA EMT140 plugin, Martin. Do you use just the electronics as a signal shaper? Or do you have some reverb on, too?
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2019 7:11:04 GMT -6
I would not have thought of this use for the UA EMT140 plugin, Martin. Do you use just the electronics as a signal shaper? Or do you have some reverb on, too? I think he means the Ampex.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2019 7:15:32 GMT -6
Yikes, you're right John, I haven't finished my coffee yet, correction made! Apologies Stratboy, I sometimes use the EMT-140 on acoustic guitars if I want a medieval sound, but never on a 2 bus.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 21, 2019 7:19:10 GMT -6
In a mastering context, hurting, for sure. I've tried most of the digital emulations just to hear, and none of them have ever made it on to a master. Things always seem to sound better with them off. I agree, and in a mixing context I think it becomes a crutch for many chasing something they don’t understand. “ The sound of tape” is the new era audio unicorn, a unicorn that lives in this case, most are just chasing this magic elixir so they saturate their tracks in snake oil. What they think is the sound of tape is often guys who could play on decent instruments in real rooms working it till they get it right. The thing is almost every tape sim can bring a certain useful distortion/ saturation tone to the party if used carefully it’s just not tape!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2019 7:27:17 GMT -6
Great points Eric. So many companies hype saturation, especially Slate. I have a bunch of them and never use them, they're just too fake, including Softube and UAD. Nothing does what the hardware does, yet. I did a couple of videos comparing plugs to hardware, and it was no contest.
|
|
|
Post by Quint on May 21, 2019 7:34:21 GMT -6
I'm still waiting for the Zulu Modular to come out sometime in the next year or so.
I like what I've heard from the Zulu desktop and wouldn't mind having 8 or even 16 channels in a rack for tracking.
I imagine I'd use it in place of compression a decent amount of the time and it's always nice to get tracks into the computer sounding that much more closer to finished.
I tried doing this same thing by printing UAD Oxide on each input channel of the Apollo while tracking, but I didn't love the results. I may need to spend more time tweaking things though.
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on May 21, 2019 8:44:34 GMT -6
I use Softube Tape on pretty much every drum channel. I will also use it on some other sources that have a bit too much transient detail (in a bad way). I never use it on anything else. I wouldn't even think of it on the master buss. I always try to do tone shaping on individual element and leave just some light (1-2dB) compression and possibly a stereo widener (125%) with a limiter on the master buss. I don't even drive the limiter. It's just there to catch the stray peak. I do like what Tape does on drums.
|
|
|
Post by jdc on May 21, 2019 9:27:01 GMT -6
I think the added harmonic distortion gives more apparent loudness to a track which can make things feel "better", but for me I've found overuse will smear things a bit
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2019 10:38:40 GMT -6
I still will occasionally use the Ampex on the 2 bus...if I’m looking to push it a little more or add a little harmonic distortion. Also can add some nice top end.
|
|
|
Post by stratboy on May 21, 2019 11:15:01 GMT -6
Yikes, you're right John, I haven't finished my coffee yet, correction made! Apologies Stratboy, I sometimes use the EMT-140 on acoustic guitars if I want a medieval sound, but never on a 2 bus. Darn. I thought you might be on to something completely new and different.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on May 21, 2019 12:18:03 GMT -6
I have used Slate VTM, Softube, Black Rooster Magnetite, and Waves MPX (now KMT Kramer Tape), all with varying degrees of success. Sometimes they have improved things, sometimes they haven't. Softube Tape can be fairly subtle and nice at times. It sounds a little more "expensive" than the others to me. Whatever that means. A little more polished, maybe.
HOWEVER (and this is a big however), I haven't used any of them since I got a Zulu about a year ago. The Zulu is just so much better in every conceivable way. Bigger, wider, better transients. It's just no contest. Real transformers for the win.
EDIT: I have not tried Acustica Taupe, though I've heard some nice things about it.
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on May 21, 2019 12:22:45 GMT -6
I put Slate VTM on every track including the 2-buss at the beginning of every mix. I’m “trusting the force” and building a digital “analog studio”. Works for me. If you start second guessing yourself or fiddling with it, you can easily get lost.
Every track also has a console sim, it used to be Slate until I bought Console 1. And I mix hybrid with quite a few external comps and EQ, plus a Black Box Analog on the 2-buss, SSL style comp, etc.
|
|
ardis
Full Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by ardis on May 21, 2019 12:39:31 GMT -6
Another I like is Hornet. Subtle and easy. I'm not really expecting tape, but I do find the softening effect. Dimensionality is a whole different thing. That to me gets tricky as tape is the most complex thing to emulate.....
|
|
|
Post by donr on May 21, 2019 12:51:30 GMT -6
I use Slate or UAD's tape sim sometimes but not always. I turn off the noise and typically run the input level much lower than you'd ever do with real analog recorders for a subtle effect. Even then it's 50-50 whether it sounds better with it in or out. But sometimes it does.
+1 on the Zulu. Really does what it says it does.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 21, 2019 13:55:28 GMT -6
Yeah Zulu is rad.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on May 21, 2019 14:21:02 GMT -6
I bet running those Chandler mics into the Zulu could be just the ticket. Did you try that with the TG? I find the Zulu to darken things up, especially with the enhance all the way down. I often have to add some highs back in or run some highs into the Zulu to compensate a little.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on May 21, 2019 19:03:04 GMT -6
As the proud owner of a Studer A800 MKIII i have to say that I've never hear an alleged digital tape sim that came even remotely close to what we get by tracking to the Studer.
From what I can tell they're all (or almost all, I have not heard all of them) programmed by coders who have never actually worked with a professional quality tape machine in working condition. Digital coder, for te most part, have wildly erroneous ideas of what a quality analog tape machine does, sonically. They all concentrate on the artifacts induced by machines in poor condition.
I have never had the opportunity to experience the Anamod and would like to - but at the prices that 24 track analog machines are going for now vs the cost of 24 channels of Anamod, I'll go for the real thing.
Mixing from digital to analog is much more economical, but it doesn't sound remotely like tracking to anolog and dumping to digital for mixing through an analog board and processing and recording back to digital.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on May 21, 2019 19:04:00 GMT -6
I had the Slate tape sim, and it was buggy, so they let me return it and I then bought the FG-X, which proceeded to not work in 64 bits for two years! The thing I felt about the Slate sim, was it sucked, was way too obvious and just changed the sound in a much too grainy way. I feel UAD's Ampex tape sim doesn't mess things up, if you tweak the input and output, you can control the saturation nicely. I use it almost all the time, happily. I also have a couple of Waves tape sims, and they just suck even more than the Slate sim, and sound fake to me. Saturation is not the point of analog recording.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on May 21, 2019 19:08:49 GMT -6
I'm still waiting for the Zulu Modular to come out sometime in the next year or so. I like what I've heard from the Zulu desktop and wouldn't mind having 8 or even 16 channels in a rack for tracking. I imagine I'd use it in place of compression a decent amount of the time and it's always nice to get tracks into the computer sounding that much more closer to finished. I tried doing this same thing by printing UAD Oxide on each input channel of the Apollo while tracking, but I didn't love the results. I may need to spend more time tweaking things though. I have not heard the Zulu (which, as I understand it is an analog emulation), but, like the Anamod, you can buy a 24 track tape machine these days for what 24 channels cost.
I paid $5000 for my Studer, with another 2000 or so bucks (over time) to get it working properly.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2019 19:09:20 GMT -6
Of course you're right John, but whatever tape does, call it compression, saturation, EQ, distortion, add harmonics, the UAD Ampex sounds good, and is as clean as you need it to be.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on May 21, 2019 20:02:25 GMT -6
Of course you're right John, but whatever tape does, call it compression, saturation, EQ, distortion, add harmonics, the UAD Ampex sounds good, and is as clean as you need it to be. Y'know, while I'm sure that an analytical type could break it down into those categories, that isn't really right. Thjere are more subtleties involved. If it was there would be a lot of successful tape emulations but, excepting the analog hardware emulations that I have yet to hear, they don't. I have my own notions as to why that might be, but at the moment I have a very large burrito to contend with and I don't really feel like getting into that right now.
Damn burrito needs more meat, less rice!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2019 20:36:53 GMT -6
We have a huge Latino population, but I have to go a long way to get a good burrito here in Neuva York.
I've barely used it, but so far, the UAD Oxide emulation is the only one that resembled what tape sounds like to my ears. It's strange because I believe it's just a simpler version of the ATR-102 using some of their presets. Next time I'm tracking, I'll look into it a little more closely.
If I had money to spare, I'd probably just buy one of those Chris Mara tape machine and use it for final mixes.
|
|
|
Post by Quint on May 21, 2019 20:53:01 GMT -6
I'm still waiting for the Zulu Modular to come out sometime in the next year or so. I like what I've heard from the Zulu desktop and wouldn't mind having 8 or even 16 channels in a rack for tracking. I imagine I'd use it in place of compression a decent amount of the time and it's always nice to get tracks into the computer sounding that much more closer to finished. I tried doing this same thing by printing UAD Oxide on each input channel of the Apollo while tracking, but I didn't love the results. I may need to spend more time tweaking things though. I have not heard the Zulu (which, as I understand it is an analog emulation), but, like the Anamod, you can buy a 24 track tape machine these days for what 24 channels cost.
I paid $5000 for my Studer, with another 2000 or so bucks (over time) to get it working properly.
16 channels of Zulu Modular is supposed to end up costing between 3k and 4k, according to Langston, that is whenever it is released.
|
|